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	<title>Comments on: Is Amtrak Cheaper Than Flying?</title>
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	<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870</link>
	<description>Dedicated to the sunset of government planning</description>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-311575</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 01:03:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-311575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Rail freight works best when you can ship direct from one facility to another by loose rail cars.

Britain doesn&#039;t do a whole lot of manufacturing and very little natural resource extraction.  It is not a farm or mineral exporter.  It is located on an island where anything going any distance to somewhere else in Europe is going by water.

Hence, little call for rail freight.

Much of the role of rail freight in general in Europe is taken up by water shipment on the seas that surround it, and the major rivers like the Rhine, Danube, Vistula, which conveniently serve Silesia, the Rhur, etc.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rail freight works best when you can ship direct from one facility to another by loose rail cars.</p>
<p>Britain doesn&#8217;t do a whole lot of manufacturing and very little natural resource extraction.  It is not a farm or mineral exporter.  It is located on an island where anything going any distance to somewhere else in Europe is going by water.</p>
<p>Hence, little call for rail freight.</p>
<p>Much of the role of rail freight in general in Europe is taken up by water shipment on the seas that surround it, and the major rivers like the Rhine, Danube, Vistula, which conveniently serve Silesia, the Rhur, etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-311573</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2012 00:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-311573</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Planes:

Airport bonds are not paid back by revenue.  Airports purposefully indebt themselves to the maximum bonding capacity they have, and then simply pay the interest and continually roll the debt over.  This is why Denver, for example, hasn&#039;t paid off any of its construction debt, and why other airports like DFW, for example, simply go more and more into debt as their bonding capacity expands.

There is no intention of ever paying this debt off.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Planes:</p>
<p>Airport bonds are not paid back by revenue.  Airports purposefully indebt themselves to the maximum bonding capacity they have, and then simply pay the interest and continually roll the debt over.  This is why Denver, for example, hasn&#8217;t paid off any of its construction debt, and why other airports like DFW, for example, simply go more and more into debt as their bonding capacity expands.</p>
<p>There is no intention of ever paying this debt off.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-310267</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Sep 2012 03:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-310267</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[If you want to call a cost/benefit analysis an excuse, go for it. I-5 is different in other expressways, especially through the Grape Vine, in that it has more sharp curves and mountains, making the median idea a fool&#039;s errand. And when you can get to SF in less than 90 minutes, WITHOUT a massive re-engineering project, who needs HSR?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want to call a cost/benefit analysis an excuse, go for it. I-5 is different in other expressways, especially through the Grape Vine, in that it has more sharp curves and mountains, making the median idea a fool&#8217;s errand. And when you can get to SF in less than 90 minutes, WITHOUT a massive re-engineering project, who needs HSR?</p>
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		<title>By: the highwayman</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-309754</link>
		<dc:creator>the highwayman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Sep 2012 03:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-309754</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Frank those are just excuses, there are already expressways in the USA that have rail lines in the center.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frank those are just excuses, there are already expressways in the USA that have rail lines in the center.</p>
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		<title>By: PlanesnotTrains</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-309647</link>
		<dc:creator>PlanesnotTrains</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 17:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-309647</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Parking is considered a concession in terms of airport revenue sources.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parking is considered a concession in terms of airport revenue sources.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-309644</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 16:36:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-309644</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I shouldn&#039;t respond, but I want to put to rest the &quot;center of I-5&quot; notion.

First and foremost, putting a train down the interstate median would require substantial re-engineering of overpasses and a tremendous cost. How are you going to get a train &lt;a href=&quot;http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z479/sequoiatreehugger/overpass.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;under this&lt;/a&gt;, highman?

Still have to build bridges. Then you cut off both sides of the freeway with tracks; police and emergency vehicles wouldn&#039;t be able to cross the median. 

Resurfacing one side sometimes entails rerouting traffic from one side to the other. With tracks down the middle, this becomes impossible or very expensive.

Please no more &quot;center of I-5&quot; comments.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shouldn&#8217;t respond, but I want to put to rest the &#8220;center of I-5&#8243; notion.</p>
<p>First and foremost, putting a train down the interstate median would require substantial re-engineering of overpasses and a tremendous cost. How are you going to get a train <a href="http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z479/sequoiatreehugger/overpass.jpg" rel="nofollow">under this</a>, highman?</p>
<p>Still have to build bridges. Then you cut off both sides of the freeway with tracks; police and emergency vehicles wouldn&#8217;t be able to cross the median. </p>
<p>Resurfacing one side sometimes entails rerouting traffic from one side to the other. With tracks down the middle, this becomes impossible or very expensive.</p>
<p>Please no more &#8220;center of I-5&#8243; comments.</p>
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		<title>By: the highwayman</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-309510</link>
		<dc:creator>the highwayman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Aug 2012 02:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-309510</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Airport revenue also comes from parking lots too. Though HSR is only viable in certain areas like SF to LA, though to save on construction costs, things like the center of I-5 should be used.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Airport revenue also comes from parking lots too. Though HSR is only viable in certain areas like SF to LA, though to save on construction costs, things like the center of I-5 should be used.</p>
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		<title>By: metrosucks</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-309433</link>
		<dc:creator>metrosucks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 20:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-309433</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Speaking of electric car boondoggles, here on the west coast I am seeing state-provided charging stations popping up everywhere, including WA state rest areas on 1-5. The ones I saw didn&#039;t seem to have a provision for charging for electricity.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Speaking of electric car boondoggles, here on the west coast I am seeing state-provided charging stations popping up everywhere, including WA state rest areas on 1-5. The ones I saw didn&#8217;t seem to have a provision for charging for electricity.</p>
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		<title>By: PlanesnotTrains</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-309403</link>
		<dc:creator>PlanesnotTrains</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:53:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-309403</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Waitâ€¦I thought that the reason why airfares are so low in the states is that airports are largely subsidized by federal and local taxes. If these subsidies were taken away, how much more would flights cost?&lt;/i&gt;

If you assume all the air passengers would have picked up the tab on the $285 million in local and state grants for non-passenger airports and tax on the bonds of about $150 million, then fares would have had to have been be about $0.69 cents higher (out of an average fare of in 1998 given the 625 million plus air passenger boardings. That said, the tax benefit on the tax-free bonds doesn&#039;t actually go issuer (the airport), it goes to the people who hold the bonds.  So the idea that this is a subsidy to the airport (or any other government agency) is a bit of a fallacy.  Saying bond revenues should be taxed is like saying when you take out a loan to buy a home you should pay 35% on the principle of that loan as income in addition to your interest on the loan.

As for Europe, the air fare tax rates are actually pretty close as a percentage to the US, but the fares are significalty higher to begin due to higher airport fees, higher traffic management fees and fuel surcharges and fuel taxes which are built into the fares.  A 300 mile trip in a high density market in the US has an average pre-tax one way fare of about $85.  In Europe that same average one-way trip costs about $126 pre-tax.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Waitâ€¦I thought that the reason why airfares are so low in the states is that airports are largely subsidized by federal and local taxes. If these subsidies were taken away, how much more would flights cost?</i></p>
<p>If you assume all the air passengers would have picked up the tab on the $285 million in local and state grants for non-passenger airports and tax on the bonds of about $150 million, then fares would have had to have been be about $0.69 cents higher (out of an average fare of in 1998 given the 625 million plus air passenger boardings. That said, the tax benefit on the tax-free bonds doesn&#8217;t actually go issuer (the airport), it goes to the people who hold the bonds.  So the idea that this is a subsidy to the airport (or any other government agency) is a bit of a fallacy.  Saying bond revenues should be taxed is like saying when you take out a loan to buy a home you should pay 35% on the principle of that loan as income in addition to your interest on the loan.</p>
<p>As for Europe, the air fare tax rates are actually pretty close as a percentage to the US, but the fares are significalty higher to begin due to higher airport fees, higher traffic management fees and fuel surcharges and fuel taxes which are built into the fares.  A 300 mile trip in a high density market in the US has an average pre-tax one way fare of about $85.  In Europe that same average one-way trip costs about $126 pre-tax.</p>
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		<title>By: PlanesnotTrains</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870&#038;cpage=1#comment-309397</link>
		<dc:creator>PlanesnotTrains</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Aug 2012 16:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6870#comment-309397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You also have to look at what the grants are really for, especially at the State level.  California had a grant program for airports a few years ago to install charging stations for electric cars which had nothing to do with the operation of the airport or the airlines.  Currently they are trying to push a few airports to subsidize cab drivers who use the airport into buying alternative fuel vehicles and hybrids.  Again, a State Grant that has nothing to do with the airport or airlines, but everything to do with cabbies, but called an â€œairport grantâ€.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You also have to look at what the grants are really for, especially at the State level.  California had a grant program for airports a few years ago to install charging stations for electric cars which had nothing to do with the operation of the airport or the airlines.  Currently they are trying to push a few airports to subsidize cab drivers who use the airport into buying alternative fuel vehicles and hybrids.  Again, a State Grant that has nothing to do with the airport or airlines, but everything to do with cabbies, but called an â€œairport grantâ€.</p>
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