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	<title>Comments on: Privatize or Contract Out?</title>
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	<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961</link>
	<description>Dedicated to the sunset of government planning</description>
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		<title>By: the highwayman</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-320149</link>
		<dc:creator>the highwayman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:22:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-320149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A free market would mean there are no police.

If they shoot at you, you shoot at them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A free market would mean there are no police.</p>
<p>If they shoot at you, you shoot at them.</p>
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		<title>By: the highwayman</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-320147</link>
		<dc:creator>the highwayman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:15:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-320147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[CPZ, how many trucking companies have built roads?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CPZ, how many trucking companies have built roads?</p>
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		<title>By: the highwayman</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-320146</link>
		<dc:creator>the highwayman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Oct 2012 10:13:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-320146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s the irony factor. Roads get carte blanc funding from government, yet you complain about the pittance of funding the transit gets.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s the irony factor. Roads get carte blanc funding from government, yet you complain about the pittance of funding the transit gets.</p>
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		<title>By: vince</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-319783</link>
		<dc:creator>vince</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Oct 2012 05:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-319783</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I oppose any public transit operation but there are some extreme difficulties in setting up a free enterprise transit company. For some reason mafia type outfits tend to muscle legitimate operators out of business. You might have a commuter line that starts at 6 am and runs every 15 minutes after that. You have built up a good clientel. The mafia man shows up at 5:59 someday and 6:14 etc. He has studied your route and knows that he can eliminate one or two stops that have few fares. He promises to get passengers downtown faster and has a slightly lower fare. You just lost you business. If you fight back, you wake up some day and all of your tires have been slashed. Your competitor gives free doughnuts to the cops and they aren&#039;t very interested if you ask for their help.

I have been thinking about ways to work around problems such as this. The Brits tried with regulatory measures but weren&#039;t very successful. (Require operators to openly seek service permits and require that they post a bond for 6 months of service, etc. You would at least know that somebody was going to shadow your route 1 minute before your runs. You could jump a minute ahead of him for six months, after applying for regulatory approval, but that could take two months. And you couldn&#039;t stop his henchmen from putting bullet holes in your windshield.)

Any ideas on how to control for this? If not, fixed route service is not likely to work in a free market.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I oppose any public transit operation but there are some extreme difficulties in setting up a free enterprise transit company. For some reason mafia type outfits tend to muscle legitimate operators out of business. You might have a commuter line that starts at 6 am and runs every 15 minutes after that. You have built up a good clientel. The mafia man shows up at 5:59 someday and 6:14 etc. He has studied your route and knows that he can eliminate one or two stops that have few fares. He promises to get passengers downtown faster and has a slightly lower fare. You just lost you business. If you fight back, you wake up some day and all of your tires have been slashed. Your competitor gives free doughnuts to the cops and they aren&#8217;t very interested if you ask for their help.</p>
<p>I have been thinking about ways to work around problems such as this. The Brits tried with regulatory measures but weren&#8217;t very successful. (Require operators to openly seek service permits and require that they post a bond for 6 months of service, etc. You would at least know that somebody was going to shadow your route 1 minute before your runs. You could jump a minute ahead of him for six months, after applying for regulatory approval, but that could take two months. And you couldn&#8217;t stop his henchmen from putting bullet holes in your windshield.)</p>
<p>Any ideas on how to control for this? If not, fixed route service is not likely to work in a free market.</p>
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		<title>By: C. P. Zilliacus</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-317812</link>
		<dc:creator>C. P. Zilliacus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 13:52:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-317812</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;In the UK, outside of London, bus operations are entirely private. Utopia? Hardly.&lt;/cite&gt;

Would you return to a rigid (and rigidly-regulated) and hugely expensive (in terms of taxpayer subsidy) system such as what we have in most of the  United States?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>In the UK, outside of London, bus operations are entirely private. Utopia? Hardly.</cite></p>
<p>Would you return to a rigid (and rigidly-regulated) and hugely expensive (in terms of taxpayer subsidy) system such as what we have in most of the  United States?</p>
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		<title>By: FrancisKing</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-317770</link>
		<dc:creator>FrancisKing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Sep 2012 10:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-317770</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;In a perfect world (run by me), transit operations would be entirely turned-over to the private sector for starters. After that, the private sector would be encouraged to experiment outside of the fixed route system inherited from the public operator(s), perhaps leading to a truly privatized system.&quot;

In the UK, outside of London, bus operations are entirely private. Utopia? Hardly.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In a perfect world (run by me), transit operations would be entirely turned-over to the private sector for starters. After that, the private sector would be encouraged to experiment outside of the fixed route system inherited from the public operator(s), perhaps leading to a truly privatized system.&#8221;</p>
<p>In the UK, outside of London, bus operations are entirely private. Utopia? Hardly.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-317470</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2012 15:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-317470</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In other words, government hates competition and establishes a monopoly that uses force to prevent competion. The result? The consumer gets screwed becuase &quot;a coercive monopolist will tend to perform his service badly and inefficiently.&quot; --Rothbard]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In other words, government hates competition and establishes a monopoly that uses force to prevent competion. The result? The consumer gets screwed becuase &#8220;a coercive monopolist will tend to perform his service badly and inefficiently.&#8221; &#8211;Rothbard</p>
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		<title>By: FrancisKing</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-317427</link>
		<dc:creator>FrancisKing</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Sep 2012 12:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-317427</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The reason why jitneys have been banned in the past is this - you need a certain level of patronage to make a service work. If jitneys are taking a large chunk of this market, then it would be possible to end up without a viable public transport system a all.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason why jitneys have been banned in the past is this &#8211; you need a certain level of patronage to make a service work. If jitneys are taking a large chunk of this market, then it would be possible to end up without a viable public transport system a all.</p>
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		<title>By: Jardinero1</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-317184</link>
		<dc:creator>Jardinero1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 21:56:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-317184</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m in.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in.</p>
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		<title>By: C. P. Zilliacus</title>
		<link>http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961&#038;cpage=1#comment-317140</link>
		<dc:creator>C. P. Zilliacus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Sep 2012 19:15:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ti.org/antiplanner/?p=6961#comment-317140</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;cite&gt;Until the 1950?s nearly all mass transit was privately owned.&lt;/cite&gt;

In and around the Washington, D.C. area, private ownership lasted until &lt;strong&gt;1972&lt;/strong&gt;.

&lt;cite&gt;Private sector operators can sort out routes and headways without government supervision.&lt;/cite&gt;

I agree.  Though remember that public transportation service, even when it was owned and operated by the private sector, was &lt;strong&gt;still&lt;/strong&gt; subject to &lt;em&gt;stringent&lt;/em&gt; economic regulation.  In the Washington area, because so many  transit lines crossed a state boundary, that meant regulation was literally in the hands of Congress and the (now-defunct) Interstate Commerce Commission, and later in the hands of a body established to regulate transit in and around Washington. In some other places, regulation was imposed by the same agencies that regulate utility service (frequently a &quot;public service commission&quot;).  In other words, just because it was owned and operated by private companies did not mean that those companies could set fares and schedules, because they could not.

&lt;cite&gt;Millions of individual drivers sort out their routes and headways every day of the week without checking with the government first.&lt;/cite&gt;

Though government action (and inaction) influences those choices.

&lt;cite&gt;Fares are best left determined by supply and demand. Why do you think the government will be able to determine the fare more ably than the operator who knows his route, customers, competition and overhead?&lt;/cite&gt;

I don&#039;t.  As I suggested above, many (most?) public-sector transit agencies in the U.S. have accepted large sums of money from the Federal Transit Administration, and those dollars come with &lt;strong&gt;plenty&lt;/strong&gt; of strings attached, hence my hedging and reluctance to support 100% private operation.  

I think the jitneys mentioned above make it pretty clear that the private sector can indeed set fares and schedules.  

In a perfect world (run by me), transit operations would be entirely turned-over to the private sector for starters.   After that, the private sector would be encouraged to experiment outside of the fixed route system inherited from the public operator(s), perhaps leading to a truly privatized system.  

I would also free &lt;strong&gt;all&lt;/strong&gt; taxicabs from economic regulation (including barriers to entry and elimination of all restrictions on where they may and may not pick up and discharge passengers), and allow cabs to raise or lower their fares as they see fit (government regulation of the taxi industry should be limited to (1) mechanical inspections for safety and emission control equipment; (2) verification that the taxi meter is operating accurately at the advertised rate; (3) regulation of the drivers (to assure that drivers are competent, safe and do not have criminal records); and (4) some method for assuring that taxes and insurance premiums are paid-up).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><cite>Until the 1950?s nearly all mass transit was privately owned.</cite></p>
<p>In and around the Washington, D.C. area, private ownership lasted until <strong>1972</strong>.</p>
<p><cite>Private sector operators can sort out routes and headways without government supervision.</cite></p>
<p>I agree.  Though remember that public transportation service, even when it was owned and operated by the private sector, was <strong>still</strong> subject to <em>stringent</em> economic regulation.  In the Washington area, because so many  transit lines crossed a state boundary, that meant regulation was literally in the hands of Congress and the (now-defunct) Interstate Commerce Commission, and later in the hands of a body established to regulate transit in and around Washington. In some other places, regulation was imposed by the same agencies that regulate utility service (frequently a &#8220;public service commission&#8221;).  In other words, just because it was owned and operated by private companies did not mean that those companies could set fares and schedules, because they could not.</p>
<p><cite>Millions of individual drivers sort out their routes and headways every day of the week without checking with the government first.</cite></p>
<p>Though government action (and inaction) influences those choices.</p>
<p><cite>Fares are best left determined by supply and demand. Why do you think the government will be able to determine the fare more ably than the operator who knows his route, customers, competition and overhead?</cite></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t.  As I suggested above, many (most?) public-sector transit agencies in the U.S. have accepted large sums of money from the Federal Transit Administration, and those dollars come with <strong>plenty</strong> of strings attached, hence my hedging and reluctance to support 100% private operation.  </p>
<p>I think the jitneys mentioned above make it pretty clear that the private sector can indeed set fares and schedules.  </p>
<p>In a perfect world (run by me), transit operations would be entirely turned-over to the private sector for starters.   After that, the private sector would be encouraged to experiment outside of the fixed route system inherited from the public operator(s), perhaps leading to a truly privatized system.  </p>
<p>I would also free <strong>all</strong> taxicabs from economic regulation (including barriers to entry and elimination of all restrictions on where they may and may not pick up and discharge passengers), and allow cabs to raise or lower their fares as they see fit (government regulation of the taxi industry should be limited to (1) mechanical inspections for safety and emission control equipment; (2) verification that the taxi meter is operating accurately at the advertised rate; (3) regulation of the drivers (to assure that drivers are competent, safe and do not have criminal records); and (4) some method for assuring that taxes and insurance premiums are paid-up).</p>
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