Comments on: More on the European Transport Myth

By: the highwayman

the highwayman — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 01:55:53 +0000

So having a built environment that favors automobiles controls people.

By: Sandy Teal

Sandy Teal — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 14:42:19 +0000

Driving in Moscow is not so healthy either. Pedestrians literally jump out in front of cars for insurance fraud. Drivers have to have dash cameras just to protect themselves from lawsuits.

Watch this video — the narration is in Russian, but the video is pretty much self-explanatory.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c12_1349902324

By: the highwayman

the highwayman — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 06:52:07 +0000

Though there are malls in city centers too.

By: Frank

Frank — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 01:35:55 +0000

This was in response to #4: “They [Eastern European countries] are gaining wealth”. Any perception of a gain in wealth, including increased wages, has largely been offset by massive inflation. Comment wasn’t properly nested in the thread.

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 00:33:03 +0000

What does inflation & the rough state control to liberty & free market have to do with transportation & urban living choices?

By: Scott

Scott — Sun, 14 Oct 2012 00:17:51 +0000

You don’t even realize that your dream of central control has been shattered by the fall of the Warsaw Pact — collectivism/communitarism — call it what you will & attribute its failures to whatever wrong control that you think it had.

There is also a math & choice problem in compactness:
1. Distance vs area varies by 1.41 (root-2). So, in reduction, the area covered by a distance is only 70% vs 50%.
2.The other fatal assumption is that destinations will be reduced, proportionally.

Example: You live an area that has doubled its density — somehow, all your trip-distances (work, shopping, friends, visiting & such) are not just supposed to be halved, but down to 35% of the previous.

Do the math.

By: Scott

Scott — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 23:59:17 +0000

More trips by Europeans are partially due to the ‘carrying capacity’ in products bought (even more stuff/capita in US, relative to income, but decreasing due to excessive gov) by manual means (walking/actual carrying) on transit versus a car’s trunk, along w/retail availability — “corner” type stores vs big-box & malls.

Another benefit [for cars & suburban density) — besides accessibility, efficiency & more choices — is that more retail options lead to more competition, resulting in lower prices.

You statists don’t understand that, do ya? There are many crony-capitalists, relying on legislative favors, who conflate the concepts.

By: Frank

Frank — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 15:12:41 +0000

It also doesn’t take into account Moscow, the paragon of central economic planning, where biking is virtually absent and one of the riskiest activities one can do, right behind rocking out in a Russian Orthodox Church.

The percentage of people biking to work in Moscow is 0.01%, and with a population 15 times larger than Amsterdam and 63 times Groningen, adding Moscow to the mix would indeed make for a more interesting analysis.

By: FrancisKing

FrancisKing — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 10:17:05 +0000

“Second, the percentage shares of various forms of travel are about the same except that Europeans travel a little more by rail and a little less by auto.”

This is, of course, a generalisation. It does not take into account places like Amsterdam (33% modal share for bicycles) or Groningen (57% modal share for bicycles). That would make for a more interesting analysis, perhaps?

By: Dan

Dan — Sat, 13 Oct 2012 01:41:11 +0000

The other part of Jardinero’s point is that many of these dense areas were built before parking was dreamt of. Even if you drive into a non-London or Paris city from the ‘countryside’, you probably will want to park close to the place where you are going to purchase something bulky. Then the transit is good enough that you can go to a bakery or butcher or whatever else is close that you are also going to visit, because gas is so expensive that you want a productive trip. Some of the newer areas of places like, say, Lyon with their new manufacturing still have transit options in addition to parking spaces.