Arizona has just published a draft environmental impact statement for a proposed moderate-speed (80-120 mph) passenger train between Phoenix and Tucson. The 116-mile route is projected to cost $4.2 billion to $8.4 billion depending on the route. At the low end of this range, the cost per mile would exceed $36 million, which should easily be enough to add four new lanes to the existing freeway (not that it needs them).
Louisiana wants to spend a mere $260 million for a so-called commuter train between Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Since then-state governor Bobby Jindal vetoed the idea of spending $500 million on a moderate-speed train in 2009, the new proposal is for a train whose top speed over the 80-mile route would be 79-mph. Initially, as few as one train per day would go each way, which pretty much make the idea a complete joke. Despite this, the idea is popular: at a recent forum for gubernatorial candidates, most candidates agreed that the state’s infrastructure was crumbling and they supported the idea of building more infrastructure that could crumble in the future.
Massachusetts officials are once again talking about connecting Boston’s North train station (which sends all-important trains to Portland, Maine) with its South Station. The connection, which would cover less than 3 miles, is estimated to cost $2 billion to $4 billion.
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Meanwhile, Durham, North Carolina has published a draft EIS for its proposed 17-mile light-rail line, which is projected to cost about $100 million per mile. The line’s circuitous route from Durham to Chapel Hill guarantees that it will be about the slowest form of travel possible between the two cities short of hitchhiking on the back of a turtle. The Antiplanner will try to review and comment on these EISs some time in the next month or so.
Thank you, Antiplaner, for bringing such government waste to light.
It’s hard to understand any public support for such waste as our real transportation system (Roads) crumble. It would be one thing if we were flush with dough and rail actually worked to move folks around quickly and efficiently, but that’s not the case. We are so many trillions in debt your head should be spinning and turn of the century rail is so slow walking can be faster.
I do have a question, sir.
On the eve of the opening of the voter rejected, North South Portland to Milwaukie, 1.5 billion dollar light rail boondoggle, just how many dollars behind is TriMet on the maintenance of the light rail they have running now? Just curious.
MnDOT’s Zip Rail tier 1 EIS is slatted to be done this fall.
Crazy idea. Since all this money should be spent for repairs and maintenance, we need to give them incentives for doing the needed work.
Have the contractors bid for the repair/maintenance work and tell the politicians they will get an additional ten percent (solely for their own pockets) if they only pass repairs/maintenance and agree to no new construction for twenty years or so.
Then they can contract for a trillion $ of needed repairs and give themselves $100 billion in legal graft.
I know it sounds horrendous but in return we actually get our infrastructure up to date and no new boondoggles to maintain in the future.
Maybe they’re insane. I went looking for property to buy in Phoenix and Tucson back in 2010 so I ended up driving between the two cities a few times. It was always an easy, two-hour drive, even with sand storms. And what would I have done once I got to Tucson? Rented a car?
Ridiculous. AZ state politicians must be totally owned by the big civil contractors. I’m glad I put my money in St. George, UT instead, where the have a decent and inexpensive bus transit system.
What about heat slowing down rail? When it hits 100 in WA and MT, Amtrak slows to a crawl or doesn’t move at all. Can’t imagine what happens in 115 degrees in AZ.
And, ah, St. George. Where I picked up my first long board. Fond memories of driving to Mesquite for real beer.
Ah, Utah. I remember the sanctimonious manner in which all beer was in its own separate walk-in compartment (at least at the one gas station I visited in search of a decent beverage). At least the scenery rules. Try finding a cup of coffee in Salt Lake City; it’s harder than finding beer in Colorado City!
The craziest lately in Arizona was, sadly, in my town, Phoenix. We just passed a $30 billion dollar spending plan for “transportation.” Only 8% of eligible voters approved it, but since they intentionally held the election in August when so many people are on vacation, it passed 55%/45% – no doubt all of the margin from the rentiers of city employers and contractors. The Republican state legislature tried to force the city to hold the election at the same time as the larger elections, but the city won in court, citing an ill-advised home rule clause in the state constitution.
BTW… re: TUS->PHX – we could use another couple of lanes on I-10 – it’s pretty crowded at 4 lanes.
And don’t forget the paid shills who disrupted people and fed lies on numerous websites to get it passed. For 30 billion smackers, contractors are willing to a lot, probably kill a bunch of people too, if they have to.
Portland is full of mouth breathing, shallow thinkers. It was the perfect place for the child rapist Goldschmidt to set up his light rail mafia, as a Potemkin Village for his cronies to laud as they fleece taxpayers in other cities.
Still that way AFAIK. I have rental property in St. George but I haven’t been there in the past year. Similarly, Colorado wouldn’t let grocery stores sell full-strength beer or liquor until a few years ago. And still each chain store can have only one store with a liquor dept. in any metro area. So only a single Trader Joe’s/Safeway/King Soopers (Kroger) store sells liquor in Denver.
Stupid. But Utah’s even stupider. You can only buy 3.2 beer in grocery stores there. Anything else you have to buy from the state liquor store. One such store in St. George has a life-size graphic on the door of a woman walking in with the admonition “Your children can see where you’re shopping” or something equally ridiculous.
Best to stock up on alcoholic beverages before crossing the state line.
Frank wrote:
What about heat slowing down rail? When it hits 100 in WA and MT, Amtrak slows to a crawl or doesn’t move at all. Can’t imagine what happens in 115 degrees in AZ.
Heck, here in Maryland and Virginia, commuter trains that run on rails owned by CSX and NS slow down when the reported temperature gets above 90° F (32° C). Only the MARC Penn Line (run by the state of Maryland) trains that roll on Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor to and from Baltimore can run at “normal” speeds (as high as 125 MPH).
The Antiplanner wrote:
Louisiana wants to spend a mere $260 million for a so-called commuter train between Baton Rouge and New Orleans. Since then-state governor Bobby Jindal vetoed the idea of spending $500 million on a moderate-speed train in 2009, the new proposal is for a train whose top speed over the 80-mile route would be 79-mph. Initially, as few as one train per day would go each way, which pretty much make the idea a complete joke. Despite this, the idea is popular: at a recent forum for gubernatorial candidates, most candidates agreed that the state’s infrastructure was crumbling and they supported the idea of building more infrastructure that could crumble in the future.
Repairing infrastructure is fine.
Building new infrastructure to provide congestion relief is fine (but even if it is filled to a crush load, one train a day is not going to provide congestion relief for anyone – even one train each way in the morning and evening rush hours is not going to do much except cost a lot of money).
Imagine if you could take a train from downtown Tucson (where nobody works) to downtown Phoenix (where a few people work). The two and a half hour train ride would get you a half hour closer to your destination, if you could get a car!
The exurbs of Phoenix and exurbs of Tucson are only an hour apart now. Indian reservations are the only reason they couldn’t get closer.
In Durham, advocates are winning the public on language games: Durham mandated that 15% of all housing withing walking distance of the future LRT stops must be affordable, and THUS, the rail is now a crucial component of all affordable housing discussions. Advocates struggle with both logic and math.
Nevermind that 75% of the population is within a 1/4 mile of a bus stop, including loads of affordable housing. This is NEVER pointed out by any rail advocates.
With a new ROW, the infrastructure will consume about 100 acres. This in an urban core where land is already scarce (there is plenty on the suburban fringe). No affordable housing advocates recognize that the train will eat land that could otherwise be used for housing, affordable or otherwise.
Triangle Transit, in all their wisdom, have decided to put the rail yard at Leigh Village, which is the only stop along the proposed line that has any potential for scaled development. All other stops (with the minor exception of South Square) are just about fully developed with no excess land. Eating Leigh Village for a large train yard eliminates the last best option for densification along the line with new development.
TTA officials say the train will average 26 mph, greatly exceeding national average of 17.3, and certainly a load of BS. The entire route will take over an hour. Point to point travel times by car are currently 25 minutes. Bus/Walk + Train + Bus/Walk looks to average 74 minutes in ever model I’ve done.
Currently, 3 buses and hour run the route. They take 30 minutes everytime I’ve been on them.
One end of the route (Chapel Hill) has a 40-year history of fighting development, and the current political winds are strong in making development even more difficult in the future.
Despite all this, the powers that be all support LRT.
Albert,
Thank you for the information. What you touched on is a common issue I come across. when chatting with other people. They like the rail but haven’t taken into account the marginal differences, if any, with other options.
My recent favorite was one called Zip Rail. MnDOT proposed a semi-HSR train between MPLS / STPL and Rochester MN. The 85-ish mile route today isn’t busy enough today to warrant a proper freeway. Yet they want to build the equivalent of a 2nd freeway on the same corridor.
I would point this out and someone would reference all the future traffic that would be used. I would then walk them through the time cost / issue people would face on the trip and show them that current options in the end not only cost less but also take less time for 99.9% of the trips on between those two.
For most folks, they would realize it’s a project that wasn’t very useful. The trick is being able to translate that same sort of information into mass marketing. Unfortunately public transit agencies are allowed to use taxpayer money to advertise for their project while opposition groups are not granted access to equal funds for their message.