“Degradation of the U.S. passenger railroad system was not a natural development — it was a result of national transportation policies that invested billions of dollars into highways and air transportation,” argued Vukan Vuchic in his advocacy piece for high-speed rail. “Meanwhile, Amtrak is supported at the survival level.”
There is some truth to that. The billions of dollars spent on interstate highways virtually all came from highway user fees, so can’t really be considered an unfair competition with passenger rail. However, in the 1940s and 1950s, Congress spent about half a billion dollars — several billion in today’s dollars — on airport construction. Subsidies to airports continued on a large scale until 1970, when Congress allowed local airports to fund themselves out of ticket fees.
At the same time, the airlines were throttled by regulation. In 1960, domestic airlines carried only about 31 billion passenger miles. Today, when they have been deregulated but receive relatively minimal subsidies, they carry more than twenty times that many. There is little reason to think passenger railroads could have competed with deregulated and unsubsidized airlines.
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Today, Amtrak fares are nearly three times airfares, and on top of that Amtrak requires subsidies that are almost equal to the collected fares. A 2008 report by Amtrak’s Inspector General found that Amtrak subsidies per passenger mile are comparable to subsidies in Europe. Total European subsidies to passenger rail are larger, so they attract more riders, but the costs are enormous and ultimately European trains only carry about 7 percent of passenger travel. Even in Europe, airlines carry more passenger miles than railroads.
For this reason, the Antiplanner suggested, in an op-ed published last Friday, that we take passenger rail off of life support. We can learn from Europe’s mistakes: don’t go heavily into debt building high-speed trains that carry an insignificant amount of travel; don’t create a political race to build passenger rail lines into every remote corner of the country; and don’t expect that heavy subsidies will lead to a more sustainable transportation system, especially when we can’t sustain the subsidies.
Well he’s sorta right…
No one can predict what technology will usurp the consumers choice. But you’ve tossed subsidies in every which way and threw regulations at every industry that doesn’t kiss your ring. Usually regulation or the adoption of more stringent rules/laws often follows three scenarios, a industry decline (Protectionism) or a vehement over use of a key resource (Highway congestion, gas prices, etc.) or technical standard overlook/noteworthy accident (The Titanic for one).
Intercity buses are now the fastest growing form of transit in the nation… Technological or business progress doesn’t come from established or big industry it comes often from a rogue outsider.
Apple did that for computers, Tesla did that for cars, Megabus did for transit, Bob’s Burgers did for animated sitcoms
If there was 1 mile of railroad for every 10 miles of road that would be phenomenal, but this about politics, not economics.
You teahadi’s aren’t complaining about sidewalks not being profitable :$
“If there was 1 mile of railroad for every 10 miles of road that would be phenomenal”
First, I asked you for a source that tolls were once $2 a mile when adjusted for inflation. Did you see that request? Can you provide that source?
Second, there are 164,000 miles of highway in the United States. There are 140,000 miles of railroad tracks. So I’m not sure where you’re getting your figures. Can you provide a source for that, too.
Phil,
I’m not sure where you get 164,000 miles of highway. According to 2016 Highway Statistics table HM-20, there are 67,000 freeway miles, 300,000 miles of other arterials, 800,000 miles of collectors, and 3.2 million miles of local roads and streets (about half of which are unpaved).
The key problem with the Highwayman’s proposal to have one mile of rail per mile of road is that rails are so much more expensive to build and to maintain. The U.S. once had 260,000 route miles of rail, and now has (as you point out) about 140,000 because the railroads couldn’t afford to maintain all those extra miles and modern signaling systems allow them to move more freight on 140,000 miles than they ever did on 260,000 miles. My friend Wendell Cox once calculated that it would cost more than 100 percent of our GDP to build and maintain a rail system that was as functional in urban areas as our road system.
“I’m not sure where you get 164,000 miles of highway.”
From the Federal Highway Administration: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/pubs/hf/pl11028/chapter1.cfm
I used highways as a comparison to rail because it’s an apples to apples comparison. Comparing rail (used primarily for intercity freight transport) to all roads is not apropos. It would be absurd to suggest that rail could replace local roads and streets, as you’ve shown with the 100% GDP fact.
“The key problem with the Highwayman’s proposal to have one mile of rail per mile of road is that rails are so much more expensive to build and to maintain.”
I could not agree more.
Don’t give him logical assessments he cant understand.
The basic fact is, we have four million miles of roads in the US and about 140,000 miles of rail (most of which is private) Only about 4% of the nations rail is public for transit/commuter purposes so we have 5,600 miles of lightrail, heavy, commuter, etc.
Roads carry over 90% of the US commuter population and most of the nations commuter accessory (non workforce) and about 38.1% of it’s freight via trucking and van delivery, but according to the Bureau of transportation statistics, trucking accounts for 63% of the financial value of freight moved. Trucks move 721 Billion dollars worth of freight. ON OUR ROADS….It cost hundreds of billions of dollars just to solicit transit service on 5,600 miles of track vs. 4 million miles of roads that serve every possible destination
WHICH DO YOU THINK WE SHOULD FIX FIRST?
Still, you are not complaining about sidewalks :$
Sidewalks are too cheap to worry about: $168,00 per mile.
AP; railroads couldn’t afford to maintain all those extra miles
THWM; Well that’s BS. It’s hostile politics, not economics.
With the Holocaust, far more people died by starvation & disease. Still I wouldn’t call that natural causes :$
CapitalistRoader; Sidewalks are too cheap to worry about
THWM; Again we come back crooked contractors, crooked politicians, etc :$
The highwayman: you still have not provided a source for your claim that tolls used to be $2 per mile when adjusted for inflation. Can you do that? If not just say.
I also understand why you keep fixating on sidewalks.
Dorval Toll Road Company rates from 1911.
The thing about sidewalks is that you teahadi’s don’t use them, but you aren’t against them :$
Sidewalks aren’t transportation infrastructure, they’re civic infrastructure like gutters, streetlights and fire hydrants…I don’t suppose you’re gonna have a shitfit and harass us forever saying we “teahadis” aren’t screaming they’re not profitable…
“Dorval Toll Road Company rates from 1911.”
That’s not evidence unless you can provide a link to actual data. Can you do that?
I don’t know what a teahadi is, but it sounds racist. Are you a racist?
I prefer brown bread instead of white bread, so I’m not surprised that you want to call me a racist :$
“Highways are there regardless of economic conditions” -Randal O’Toole
I’m beginning to think you are some kind of defective bot. I have asked you on several occasions to provide evidence, but apparently your programming won’t allow that. Seems like your programming just takes one word and spits out a word salad that has nothing to do with the previous comment.
Also, I didn’t call you a racist. I asked if you are one because of your use of the weird phrase teahadi. Apparently you’re anti-muslim? And if not at the very least you’re just a simple little name caller. I’d say you’re like an elementary student but I don’t want to insult elementary students.
Can you please prove you’re not a bot by actually providing the evidence I’ve asked you for? If you can’t do it, just say, and if your a bot, just keep spouting nonsense.
Also, I googled “Highways are there regardless of economic conditions” and apparently the only “person” who has ever said this is you. Is that line part of your bot programming, too? I’d ask you for a source for that, too, but we’ve seen how well you’ve done with providing evidence.
LazyReader; Sidewalks aren’t transportation infrastructure, they’re civic infrastructure
THWM; So what’s your stance on rebar then?
“Highways are there regardless of economic conditions”
The source is Randal O’Toole, he said that several years ago here.
I’m not disagreeing with him there.
Government policy is anti-rail, roads are not expected to be profitable to survive :$
“The source is Randal O’Toole, he said that several years ago here.”
What’s the link to that? I searched for that exact phase and found that you’re the only one who has said that.