The first question that should be asked about any public policy is, “Who benefits and who pays?” This can be relevant to tollroads, one of the few ideas that is supported by both smart-growth advocates and mobility supporters.
The difference is that mobility supporters believe in tolls as a way for users to pay for the facilities they use — and, not so incidentally, to give signals to those users about when and where it is particularly expensive to travel — while smart-growth advocates believe in tolls as a way of punishing those who drive and taking their money to spend on transit.
The center lanes are the Dulles Access Road; they are free but go only to the Dulles Airport. The other lanes are the Dulles Tollroad and are heavily used by commuters.
Case in point: Virginia’s Dulles Toll Road, which was once owned by the state of Virginia but lately has been taken over by the Metropolitan Washington Airport Authority. The latter organization is nearly doubling tolls on the highway in order to raise money for a boondoggle of an extension of Metrorail to Dulles Airport.
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“Drivers on the Dulles Toll Road will be the primary source of funding for mass transit they won’t use,” notes one perceptive reporter.
Now a group calling itself the Dulles Corridor Users Group, led by the Antiplanner’s faithful ally and friend, Chris Walker, has filed suit saying that the transfer of the tollroad to the airport authority is illegal. According to the suit, Virginia law requires that, when a tollroad is paid for, the tolls must cease — not be turned into “a cash cow for Dulles rail.”
The Antiplanner, of course, believe that roads should be tolled even after tolls have paid for construction costs, both to raise money for maintenance and upgrades and to give users (and managers) signals about when and where it is efficient to travel (and invest). But if Virginia’s law can be used to thwart construction of the Dulles rail line, more power to the DCUG.
The Autoplanner: The first question that should be asked about any public policy is, “Who benefits and who pays?†This can be relevant to tollroads, one of the few ideas that is supported by both smart-growth advocates and automobile supporters.
The difference is that automobile supporters believe in tolls as a way for users to pay for the facilities they use  and, not so incidentally, to give signals to those users about when and where it is particularly expensive to travel  while smart-growth advocates believe in tolls as a way of punishing those who drive and taking their money to spend on transit.
THWM: Money collected from tolls could go towards general revenue too, if the toll road is publicly owned.
If the toll road is privately owned then it goes to its stake holders.
The Autoplanner: But if Virginia’s law can be used to thwart construction of the Dulles rail line, more power to the DCUG.
THWM: Well, again here you show true colors, you just hate rail for being rail!
Judging from his consistent holeshot, THWM must get to his make-work job at the crack of dawn.
while smart-growth advocates believe in tolls as a way of punishing those who drive and taking their money to spend on transit.
BS.
I’d like to see a ‘punishing’ quote, either explicit or implicit.
DS
Antiplanner wrote:
“The difference is that mobility supporters believe in tolls as a way for users to pay for the facilities they use  and, not so incidentally, to give signals to those users about when and where it is particularly expensive to travel  while smart-growth advocates believe in tolls as a way of punishing those who drive and taking their money to spend on transit.”
That’s a bit simplistic. I am a “smart-growth advocate”, but I “believe in tolls as a way for users to pay for the facilities they use”, although I do not believe in the idea of using tolls to “give signals to those users about when and where it is particularly expensive to travel”.
In future, it will be increasingly difficult to find tax money to built new facilities. Toll roads, like the M6 toll road in the UK, make a lot of sense, even though arguably, the tolls on that road are too expensive, and people are not making good use of a prime site.
On the other hand, most people know when the road is busy, and resent paying another arbitrary congestion charge just because the government has nobbled all of the non-car choices. When realistic alternatives to the car are presented, people will give up cars, because cars are just so expensive. Part of that is informing people about the choices that they already have.
Antiplanner wrote:
“The latter organization is nearly doubling tolls on the highway in order to raise money for a boondoggle of an extension of Metrorail to Dulles Airport.”
Apart from the bizarre idea of tolling a road in order to build a rail line, this is an example ($5.1bn for 23 miles) of when trains are no good. Coaches, with bus priority, using existing roads, would do the same job, much cheaper. It’s as good an example as when not to use rail, as yesterday was a good example of when not to use buses.
Railwayman, I’m quite sure at this point he is only doing it to upset you specifically.
This post is so much better than yesterday’s. But now I have nothing to really complain about.
highwayman, your first post actually had some semblance of sanity to it. I mean there was none of the mouth foaming stupdity that your normally regurgitate. What you said was, dare I say it, correct. Let’s not go overboard, what you said was obvious, but true.
And then there was your second post…
My second post was correct too, he just wants to obstruct of modes of transport, like rail.
There’s a need for both roads & railroads.
Please take a writing class.
I made a typo. So here it is again. Do you feel better now Frank?
My second post was correct too, he just wants to obstruct other modes of transport, like rail.
There’s a need for both roads & railroads.
Here’s another example of rail going seriously pear-shaped.
http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/topstories/Tram-line-chaos-branded-an.5554732.jp
Just shows, again, that it’s important to pick the right technology.
Being a current resident in the DC area, I can attest that the Antiplanner is correct in this instance. WMATA (The agency running Metro) is hundreds of millions in the red and has even more in unfunded capital costs that it will require in order to maintain its existing infrastructure, nevermind the additions of a Purple line and “Silver” line to Dullas. Additionally, the tunnel under the Potomac is single-tracked and already a significant choke point for the system.
I think the Antiplanner’s point is to contrast the billions of dollars that are going into rail to Dullas (and the potential benefit) to other projects that could have been funded with that money. Look, for example, at the incredible benefit from the Mixing Bowl project or the new Wilson bridge. The bridge, in particular, has revolutionized commuting to Alexandria from Maryland – providing significant, immediate, economic benefits.
Look, I ride the train every day to work and love it. However, that doesn’t give me the right to take money out of other people’s pocketbooks to indulge my love of rail. If rail works (as it does in the NY/DC corridor) then let it fund itself.
amonza:Look, I ride the train every day to work and love it. However, that doesn’t give me the right to take money out of other people’s pocketbooks to indulge my love of rail. If rail works (as it does in the NY/DC corridor) then let it fund itself.
ws:Agree. Can we do the same for roads, or are they excluded from being cost efficient? PS: Isn’t it “Dulles”, not “Dullas”?
amonza said: Look, I ride the train every day to work and love it. However, that doesn’t give me the right to take money out of other people’s pocketbooks to indulge my love of rail. If rail works (as it does in the NY/DC corridor) then let it fund itself.
THWM: I still have to pay for the road infront of my house even if hardly ever I drive on it. I have no problem if people want to indulge in their love for driving, just don’t try limit/prohibit other peoples means of getting around.