Amtrak Joe, meet Vaccination Joe. President Biden’s requirement that all federal workers must be vaccinated by January 4 has led Amtrak to announce that it will have to cut service on some of its routes in anticipation of employees quitting because they don’t want to be vaccinated.
Might not be a lot of vaccinated people eager to work for Amtrak out here.
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Gardner doesn’t seem to be using this as a threat to get Biden to overturn the vaccine mandate. “Amtrak has strongly advocated that all our employees to be vaccinated,” he said, which makes sense as employees frequently contact the public and Amtrak doesn’t want to get a reputation as a spreader of disease. Still, it is ironic that Biden’s vaccination rule may impact his favorite mode of travel.
With any luck this will turn into a money-saving permanent change.
At this point the vaccination requirement is 100% on Amtrak. There is no federal requirement. Amtrak’s Gardner is, IMHO, a slime ball bullshit artist, unwilling to take ownership of the outcomes of __HIS__ decisions.
“Amtrak has strongly advocated that all our employees to be vaccinated,” he said, which makes sense as employees frequently contact the public and Amtrak doesn’t want to get a reputation as a spreader of disease.
Hilarious since the “vaccinated” still spread COVID; CDC data shows that vaccinated people carry detectable viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated.
@Ted
The viral load in people who are vaccinated contains less ‘live virus’ and doesn’t last as long, thereby limiting transmission.
@Sketter
Citation needed.
All I can find are scientific articles that show there is no difference in viral load. Zero mention of “live virus” or longevity.
@Ted
Below is a link to a summary that also provides links the sources of the research/data.
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/verify/viral-load-vaccinated-unvaccinated-spread-covid-verify-wfmy/83-51477372-21fa-4704-9d78-776c7f066771
@Sketter
Thanks for the link.
Please note that the news article you linked has two sources: one is a published peer-reviewed journal article; another is an MD providing his opinion.
The peer-reviewed article shows that viral load is the same in vaccinated and unvaccinated. It states nothing about “live virus” or longevity.
The medical opinion in a CBS news article is not peer-reviewed evidence, nor is his medical opinion corroborated anywhere else.
Needless to say, I’m skeptical of the assertion. Just like I have been of all the BS the media has flung the past two years.
@Sketter
If you get around to responding, and I totally understand if you don’t because…well, the quality of evidence, but if you do, consider my original claims, which you have failed to refute; begins with original quote:
“Amtrak has strongly advocated that all our employees to be vaccinated,” he said, which makes sense as employees frequently contact the public and Amtrak doesn’t want to get a reputation as a spreader of disease.
Claim 1: … the “vaccinated” still spread COVID
Claim 2: CDC data shows that vaccinated people carry detectable viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated.
Actually, these are not claims at all.
They are *facts.*
And now I see that you’ve successfully distracted from that with low-quality “evidence.”
Lower Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2 Viral Shedding Following Coronavirus Disease 2019 Vaccination Among Healthcare Workers in Los Angeles, California
https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/8/11/ofab526/6425697
Oh, look! A link! Without any text relating it to the discussion. It doesn’t mention live virus or longevity of the virus. It does have some cautioning statements:
“studies have found that unvaccinated and vaccinated individuals infected with the Delta variant have similar viral loads, especially in early infection, suggesting similar risk for viral transmission”
“our findings … should be interpreted with caution, as they might not be generalizable in the current setting of widespread Delta variant transmission”
Again: the “vaccinated” still spread COVID and CDC data shows that vaccinated people carry detectable viral loads similar to those of people who are unvaccinated.
Again, Amtrak doesn’t have to require this. They’re shooting themselves in the gutt.
I took a look at the linked paper. It compares cycle threshold (Ct) values for individuals with a positive PCR test — specifically health care workers — infected with the prior (pre-delta) strain of the virus.
The main results are summarized in Figure 1. They base their findings on differences in median Ct values between various groups (unvaccinated, partially and fully vaccinated). They also report interquartile ranges of the Ct values for the various groups. This is the range between the 25th and 75th percentiles. And while their are modest differences in median Ct levels, it is clear that the IRs for the unvaccinated and post-vaccinated groups ( 1 week after second dose) substantially overlap, meaning that the differences are likely to have occurred merely by chance.
Of course, this is entirely consistent with what we’ve seen so far with the delta variant. Several Western European countries, along with others like Israel, with high rates of vaccination are nonetheless seeing large rates of transmission, consistent with vaccinated individuals being capable of shedding viral loads high enough to infect others. The UK, with nearly 90% of its population 12 and over vaccinated, has consistently churned out 30K-50K confirmed cases per day over the last couple of months, and even this might underestimate the total number of infections.
The vaccines can be effective at preventing the progression of the virus into severe forms of disease. They cannot, however, limit the spread of the virus, and they never should have been sold as such.
MJ, unfortunately for some, they won’t admit to the limitations of the covid vaccinations because – for not good reason – they refuse to allow for other means of addressing the negative outcomes from the virus. They hate anti-virals. Sad stuff.
Amtrak’s now rescinded their unrequired mandate.
https://nypost.com/2021/12/14/amtrak-drops-vax-mandate-for-employees-wont-have-to-cut-service/