Congress’ decision to give Amtrak $16 billion for adding new passenger service has reopened an old debate: which should get priority over the rails — passenger or freight trains? That debate came out in hearings held by the Surface Transportation Board over Amtrak’s proposal to restart passenger service between New Orleans and Jacksonville that had been shut down in 2005 due to damage from Hurricane Katrina.
In 2016, Amtrak ran a test train to Florida to generate support for the Gulf Coast route. Resistance from the freight railroads has prevented Amtrak from reestablishing this service. Photo by Gracebeliever77.
CSX and Norfolk Southern, the railroads over which Amtrak would operate, says the passenger trains would “unreasonably disrupt” their freight trains in the area, many of which serve the Port of Mobile, Alabama, one of the fifteen largest ports in the country measured by tonnage. Unlike most West Coast ports, the Port of Mobile sees more tonnage exported than imported, and much of the freight in both directions goes over CSX and Norfolk Southern tracks.
Passenger-train advocates argued that federal law gives passenger train priority over freight and that railroads like CSX and Norfolk Southern are required to accept Amtrak trains unless they can prove that doing so would impair freight service — which they say the railroads haven’t done. Supposedly, the railroads agreed to these conditions when they unloaded their passenger trains onto Amtrak in 1971.
The railroad world has changed since 1971. At that time, the railroads had a huge surplus of capacity, meaning there was plenty of room for both passenger and freight trains. Since then, the railroads have shed some of that surplus capacity while increased traffic has used up the rest, so on many routes there really is no room for more trains. Since passenger trains go at different speeds and make more frequent stops than freight trains, adding one passenger train can mean removing more than one freight train from the rails.
From an economic, environmental, and social equity view, the railroads should win this fight.
- Freight trains make money; Amtrak trains lose money, so there is no economic justification for preferring passengers over freight.
- Air travel emits about 10 percent more greenhouse gases per passenger-mile than Amtrak, but trucks emit about ten time as much greenhouse gases per ton-mile as freight trains, so putting freight on the rails is a much higher environmental priority than putting passengers on trains.
- Almost everyone in the country depends on freight shipments, while Amtrak carries only 0.1 percent of all passenger-miles, and passengers on long-distance trains such as this one are mainly well-off tourists.
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Unfortunately, policies that make the most sense are not always the ones that get implemented. This case is seen as a bellwether for Amtrak’s proposed new services in other parts of the country. Since Amtrak has $16 billion burning a hole in its pocket, it is likely to get its way no matter how undeserving it is.
The automotive industry was bailed out at 80 billion dollars and the first round of interstate highways was 100 billion overbudget.
Real scenario, What if we didn’t subsidize those methods of transportation……Answer, Car patterns would have changed.
Fewer SUV’s and Big pickups
More small cars with decent gas mileage.
Boggles the mind Americans still whine about gas prices……
Average US price: $3.52
Meanwhile Europeans laugh, because they’re driving fuel efficient cars.
Spain: $6.70
Ireland: 7.46
Germany: 7.48
France: 7.50
UK: 7.85
Thou they may not laugh at current rising energy prices…
Those aren’t “energy prices.” They’re mostly taxes.
And in Europe, unlike the Western US, you don’t have to drive for two hours to get to the next city.
A subsidy is a direct payment to a business, so the interstate highway system, while statist, is in no way a subsidy.
Finally, European car manufacturers have also been bailed out. Try searching the web. Sample article title: Renault’s €5bn bailout gets EU go-ahead
In short, as usual, you are full of shit.
Meanwhile Europeans laugh, because they’re driving fuel efficient cars.
They don’t have much choice. In addition to much higher gas taxes, Europeans are generally poorer with the larger countries having per-capita GDPs (PPP) $10 to $15K less than the United States. They can’t afford to buy larger cars even if they could afford the gas to put in them.
Except that Western Europeans own more cars per capita than Americans: https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/08/its-official-western-europeans-have-more-cars-per-person-than-americans/261108/
The size of the cars is dictated by much higher population density, which forces smaller structures, roads, houses, cars upon Europeans. In Northern Europe cars tend to be bigger, because there is much more space. On the other hand, these things often have higher quality in Europe. A western European house, for instance, is smaller than an American, but comes with much higher quality standards, better materials, better insulation, solid construction, covered utilities, better windows, often with solar panels on the roof etc.
A lot more Europeans are driving luxury vehicles like Mercedes, BMW, Audi etc than Americans. These cars are often smaller than American Pick Up trucks, but they are packed with the newest technology and luxury options. Mercedes taxis and BMW company cars are not uncommon in Western Europe. In the US these cars have the reputation of being expensive and only reserved for the rich.
Then you have higher energy prices in Europe, but due to being much smaller than North America, Europeans have to drive far shorter distances than Americans and European cars tend to be way more fuel efficient, so this equals out.
Regarding GDP. Europeans have much more free time than Americans: https://data.oecd.org/chart/6Cyw This makes income comparisons pretty useless, as free time is a form of wealth.
The fact that Europeans have more cars per capita and yet spend tons of money on transit should make you question the concept of GDP as a proper metric for material well being.
And don’t forget, that PPP as a unit for GDP comparisons is a flawed concept, because of the large chunk of non-tradeable products in each country. This makes the PPP (int.$) a highly subjective currency unit.
2012 are pretty old stats. Wikipedia has newer ones:
List of countries by vehicles per capita
According to that site, only tiny San Marino, Andorra, and Monaco have more cars per capita than the United States.
Mercedes taxis and BMW company cars are not uncommon in Western Europe. In the US these cars have the reputation of being expensive and unreliable.
This makes income comparisons pretty useless, as free time is a form of wealth.
So, per your standards, I guess the homeless guy living under a bridge in San Francisco is wealthy beyond imagination.
(1) The Wikipedia numbers don’t have the same methodology. For instance, the US numbers include commercial and government vehicles. In terms of private personal vehicles Western Europeans own more cars per capita than Americans.
(2) Mercedes and BMW have average reliability in the US. However they also have tons of electronic features and these cars are mostly sold to rich people in the US. It would be interesting to see a statistics of reliability per parts. My guess is that German luxury brands would win this easily. More reliable than American luxury brands anyway, including Tesla, Cadillac and Lincoln.
(3) The material standard of living of a homeless is so low, that the amount of free time a homeless person has, can not compensate for that. The per capita incomes of Western Europeans is not so much lower. For instance, in 2019, the gross household disposable income including social transfers per capita was 41,030.1 USD (PPP) in Germany and 54,854.3 USD (PPP) in the United States. (source: OECD) Which means the German income is 75% of the US income. Now look at the average hours worked per worker in 2019. In the US it was 1,777.0 hours and in Germany it was 1,382.8 (source: OECD). Which surprise surprise means more or less that Germans worked about 75% of the hours Americans worked. Now account for the fact, that Germany has way less inequality and you will get a higher median household income per capita in Germany than in the US.
*Now account for the fact, that Germany has way less inequality and you will get a higher gross household disposable income including social transfers per hour worked in Germany than in the US.
Huh. So almost $14K per year less “is not so much lower”? That’s a 25% pay cut. That’s the per capita disposable income of West Virginians, the second lowest in the United States.
Plus, $14K per year would pay for an unreliable Mercedes.
(1) I think you missed the part, where I calculated for you how much more free time Germans have. Free time is pretty high on the value scale for people here. Few people here would accept working 25% longer for just 14k USD more per year.
(2) Like I said, look at the comparable luxury brands.
According to your own statistics, the most reliable luxury brand is:
1. Lexus
2. Porsche
3. Infiniti
4. BMW
5. Audi
6. Mercedes
7. Cadillac
8. Tesla
9. Lincoln
So Japanese are the most reliable, Germans are in the middle and Americans are the least reliable. What we don’t know?
(a) Is this ranking reliable?
(b) How many failures per part/feature?
(c) How new is the technology in those cars? Lexus is known for older, but improved technology, while Mercedes is known for pioneering new technology
Here are the most sold luxury brands in the US by sale in 2021s:
1. BMW: 337k
2. Tesla: 313k
3. Lexus: 305k
4. Mercedes: 276k
5. Audi: 196k
So BMW alone sells more cars than any other American/Japanese luxury brand on its own.
”
Unlike most West Coast ports, the Port of Mobile sees more tonnage exported than imported, and much of the freight in both directions goes over CSX and Norfolk Southern tracks
” ~anti-planner
Amtrak has been strangely aggressive over starting up this passenger train. Hardly no one will us it. And the freight set up is more or less maxed out with what it has.
Another twist, Alabama hasn’t shown strong interest in funding this. Why is Amtrak pushing so hard to start a train that won’t be running a couple years later?
Odd stuff happens when you’re burning other people’s cash.
Hey, whatever happened with the investigation of that deadly Amtrak derailment in Montana back on September 25, 2021? Swept under the rug?
LazyReader,
I’m curious to know what $80 billion bailout was given to the auto industry. I don’t remember seeing that in any recent reports.
You are right that the interstate highways were over budget, but that was because planners failed to account for inflation. The highways were built only as fast as federal gas taxes were collected to pay for them, and the gas taxes didn’t automatically adjust for inflation. The taxes used for most transit projects do automatically adjust for inflation, so they can’t use that as an excuse.
You want me to calculate 60 years of roads capital expenditure…Spending on highways and roads includes the operation, maintenance and construction of highways, streets, roads, sidewalks, bridges, and other related structures.
From 1977 to 2018, in 2018 inflation-adjusted dollars, state and local government spending on highways and roads increased from $96 billion to $187 billion. I’ll give a rough estimate if 10-12 trillion dollars inflation adjusted..but those roads carried 450 trillion passenger miles. Nearly half a quadrillion ton-miles of freight and bulk goods. Transit received 1.5 Trillion dollars in subsidies since 1970. Saw 50% collapse in transit worker productivity 171 billion dollar maintenance debacle System so dilapidated homeless people use it as their personal toilet.
Does Europe mix passenger and freight trains on the same tracks, or do they have dedicated tracks for passenger service? Obviously high speed trains have to have dedicated tracks, but what about regular passenger trains?
https://www.mtpr.org/montana-news/2021-10-26/cause-of-montana-amtrak-derailment-still-under-investigation
Cause of Montana Amtrak derailment still under investigation
Sandy Teal,
Conventional passenger trains and freight trains use the same tracks in Europe. Only about 16 percent of European freight is shipped by rail. A case can be made that all of the passenger trains crowds out the use of the tracks for freight.
Freight rail only makes sense in places with long distances between cities. This is mostly the case in North America. In Europe the population and economic activity is more evenly distributed, which is why heavy freight rail, especially these long freight double stacker trains wouldn’t make much sense. Also unlike the US, Europe has plenty of rail tunnels. Double stacker trains wouldn’t fit on our infrastructure. Not to mention, that the US and Canada still use outdated diesel technology to power their freight trains.
Uh, no they don’t.
Regarding GDP. Europeans have much more free time than Americans: https://data.oecd.org/chart/6Cyw This makes income comparisons pretty useless, as free time is a form of wealth.
LOL. I recall the Obama Administration trying to use this canard after their Obamacare employer mandate resulted in many more workers losing work hours and being reclassified as part-time. Their PR flack at the time was telling the public that these workers should be happy that they have more time to pursue other activities. Meanwhile, most of them if given the choice would have preferred to reinstate their work hours and the income that went with it.
And don’t forget, that PPP as a unit for GDP comparisons is a flawed concept, because of the large chunk of non-tradeable products in each country.
No surprise that those who have less income would claim that measuring it is a “flawed” concept. Most of those “non-tradable” products, with the exception of pure public goods like national defense, are congestible, meaning their quality declines with consumption (roads get congested, parks and schools get crowded, air quality declines with increasing population density).
The statistics does not separate between personal vehicles, commercial and government vehicles. I have already addressed that. Did you read that? Apparently not. Europeans own more personal vehicles per capita than Americans.
Europeans and esp. Germans are not Americans that work like there is no tomorrow. Free time is a highly valued here, much more than higher incomes. People also want to live you know? We do not exist just for the purpose of working and then dying. Relaxation time is important for personal well being, much more than material wealth. There is a reason why so many Americans are drug-addicted and take meds like fast food.
Almost all services are non-tradeables, many goods are not available in other countries, which makes PPP calculations subjective. This is common sense among economists.
European infrastructure is in a much better condition than American infrastructure. The problem with American sprawl is, that the infrastructure becomes so large, that proper maintenance and quality construction is impossible.
”
Europeans own more personal vehicles per capita than Americans.
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The number of cars per person in Deleware is 3 times higher than Belguim.
Only hte smalles of the small European countries ( Andora, Monaco, Iceland ) have more vehicles per capita than the US.
UTISOC, your bullshit is so constant, think and wildly wrong that I pray you seek help for your mental disorder(s). I am NOT being flippant. This sort of behavior is surely having quite the negative impact on your life and relationships.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita
Try to read my comment again, then think about it and then respond again and you might have addressed my actual point. Thanks!