The Antiplanner » Transportation » Subway Noise Dangerous for Riders’ Health

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The Antiplanner is a forester and economist with more than fifty years of experience critiquing government land-use and transportation plans.

23 Responses to Subway Noise Dangerous for Riders’ Health

  1. Systematicvisionary says:
    May 16, 2025 at 1:49 pm

    First of all, some of the noise presented in the video is from cars, obviously. Cars are the number one reason for noisy cities. Second, the NYC subway is one of the most outdated and poorly maintained subways in the world. Of course it is loud. It lacks basically any new technological noise inuslation improvements that have been made in the international rail industry since the 1920s. That said, true urbanists are against subways and for surface level public transport like light rail and trams. Light rail and trams are significantly quiter than roads, that have the same capacity. NYC is mainly as loud as it is, because of the car traffic. Americans are trying to avoid their cities, because of the traffic. That’s why they flee to suburbs, where they live on cul-de-sac streets with little traffic, where their children can play in the streets. Something you would never see in an American city, but which is much more common in cities overseas.

  2. LazyReader says:
    May 16, 2025 at 4:22 pm

    How loud is auto traffic?

    • Systematicvisionary says:
      May 17, 2025 at 1:51 am

      It’s really bad. Car traffic is in the 70 -80 dBA range. Without all the honking and sirens. Car traffic is responsible for 80% of the noise in cities.

      Of course I don’t have to explain the negative effects of constant noise on the human health and psyche.

      The irony is, that many Americans are fleeing the car traffic noise of their cities by moving to suburbs which block through traffic, but which also manifests the car-dependency that causes the noise issue in the first place.

      Americans have ruined their public space. The result is Americans are spending more time indoors than ever before. On average, Americans spend 93% of their time indoors. Of which 6% is in cars. 18% of Americans are spending less than 15 minutes per day outdoors. But why would you spend more time outdoors if the outdoor environment is so hostile towards people outside of cars. Highways, arterial roads, stroads, big box stores and uniform single use neighborhoods with collections of little boxes (sry SFHs) aren’t particular attractive for spending time outdoors. Good for all those who live on the periphery and do have some surrounding nature for hiking or fishing at least.

      • Henry Porter says:
        May 17, 2025 at 2:36 am

        Systematicvisionary, what is your vision for fixing everything you say is wrong with American cities, and what is your plan for how you would make it happen?

        • Systematicvisionary says:
          May 17, 2025 at 5:24 am

          First of all, Americans need to relax and revaluate their lives. Americans need to realize, that their lifestyles aren’t in line with human nature. They need to realize, that they have been brainwashed by corporate advertisement about what is important in life. If they do this Americans will be mentally prepared for cities and communities that promote relaxation and harmony over chasing ever bigger cars and homes to comply with absurdly overcompetitive individualist social norms.

          • Systematicvisionary says:
            May 17, 2025 at 5:33 am

            When I think about the American Way of Life it reminds me of this song: https://youtu.be/VUoXtddNPAM?si=8Z88QO-ptoIIoe-O

          • Henry Porter says:
            May 18, 2025 at 2:54 am

            I asked you two questions—what is your vision and how would you implement it—and you didn’t answer either of them. You just gave me more of your observations on what YOU think is wrong with how millions of other people are living THEIR lives.

            Could you try again? Do you have any solutions? Do you even understand how difficult it would be to change the behavior of millions of people, at least some of whom don’t want to change their behavior? I personally know people (and you do too) who would not agree with your assertions as to what they “need” to do and who would actively resist your attempts to change them.

            I just wonder if you have thought that through….

          • IC_deLight says:
            May 18, 2025 at 9:26 am

            Systematic visionary says: “Americans need to realize, that their lifestyles aren’t in line with human nature. They need to realize, that they have been brainwashed by corporate advertisement about what is important in life.”
            As opposed to your attempts at brainwashing?

            “If they do this Americans will be mentally prepared for cities and communities that promote relaxation and harmony over chasing ever bigger cars and homes to comply with absurdly overcompetitive individualist social norms”
            For the most part, Americans are choosing homes for their individual needs not to keep up with the Joneses. We aren’t choosing suburban homes because we are “competing” but rather out of preference to the type of housing (cramped, hamster-style, no yard, limited private space, shared walls, ceilings, and floors) that you promote. Packing people in like sardines leads to conflict. If you haven’t figured it out, we want more private space specifically for relaxation and harmony! But you can’t really comprehend that because you are relegated to being an apartment tenant in another country where your choice is limited to “which apartment”.

  3. CapitalistRoader says:
    May 17, 2025 at 7:25 am

    That’s why they flee to suburbs, where they live on cul-de-sac streets with little traffic, where their children can play in the streets. Something you would never see in an American city, but which is much more common in cities overseas.

    Weird. I’ve rarely seen children playing on the streets in Beijing or London or Tokyo or Bratislava or Hong Kong. However, I often saw kids playing in the streets of Mumbai and Yangon and Colombo. It must be that the citizens of Mumbai and Yangon and Colombo haven’t been brainwashed by corporate advertisement about what is important in life.

  4. LazyReader says:
    May 17, 2025 at 4:20 pm

    Plenty auto noise in European cities.
    Cars get a bad rap for noise when urban speeds average below 30 miles an hour noise is fairly manageable.

    Noises like buses and diesel trucks which are louder, construction, Blaring music, and crowds.

    Real solution to noise is mitigate traffic is turn every odd number lane to higher speeds and even ones to lower speeds.

    • Systematicvisionary says:
      May 18, 2025 at 2:12 am

      Happier children und less auto noise in many European cities of equal density. Traffic calming doesn’t exist in the US. The Netherlands has perfected it. And they did so with their bicycle infrastructure. Many streets and places are car free in Europe.
      You would be surprised of how much quiter European cities of equal density are as compared to their American counterparts thanks to reduced car traffic noise.

  5. rovingbroker says:
    May 17, 2025 at 5:00 pm

    Systematic wrote in part, ” Americans are trying to avoid their cities, because of the traffic. That’s why they flee to suburbs, where they live on cul-de-sac streets with little traffic, where their children can play in the streets.”

    Sounds to me like the Americans have a solution to loud and crowded cities — move out — while Systematic is fighting the tide of rational behavior.

    Poor Systematic.

    • Systematicvisionary says:
      May 18, 2025 at 2:19 am

      A ‘solution’ to a problem they have created in the first place and a ‘solution’ that creates an even bigger problem, which is a car-dependent environment, where people and children have to spend most of their time indoors to wait until they get diabetes or cardiovascular diseases. Is this rational for you?

      • charlesplatt says:
        May 18, 2025 at 8:12 pm

        I scrolled through your wacky rants and didn’t notice a source for your claim of 70-80dB or for cars being resposible for “80% of the noise” (a statement so vague as to be meaningless).

        Apparently you just have a thing about cars. Show you a post about the subway system, and you rant about cars. Weird and slightly annoying.

        • Systematicvisionary says:
          May 18, 2025 at 9:04 pm

          You need a source for knowing, that car traffic is loud? Have you never stand next to a busy road? Highway traffic noise typically ranges from 70 to 80 decibels (dB) at a distance of 50 feet, according to the Federal Highway Administration (.gov) and the Department of Transportation (.gov). Research has found that 80% of urban noise pollution comes from traffic. Sounds over 70 decibels are considered damaging to hearing, and highway traffic measures around 80 db even up to 50 feet away. https://www.intechopen.com/chapters/72522

          You are probably so used to car noise you do not notice it anymore.

          • Henry Porter says:
            May 19, 2025 at 3:12 am

            Systematic visionary doesn’t have a vision. He complains incessantly about a world he doesn’t like but has no idea how to remake it to his liking. He should be called Systemic Whiner.

  6. janehavisham says:
    May 18, 2025 at 3:23 am

    “Happier children und less auto noise in many European cities of equal density. ”

    absolutely true; I have seen this in person

  7. CapitalistRoader says:
    May 19, 2025 at 12:16 pm

    In the US most urban areas are extremely car-dependent as well.

    Exactly. Most most U.S. urban areas were developed after the popular acceptance of the automobile. Given the choice, people will travel locally privately rather than with strangers. It saves time because 1) we don’t have to wait for scheduled mass transit and 2) we travel directly to our destination rather than the closest transit stop or connection.

    Most European countries do have life expectancies above the US, especially those with similar income levels.

    Sure. Overwhelmingly predominantly Asian and White countries do. For an apples-to-apples comparison, the United States’ life expectancy should be compared to other very large, ethnically and/or racially diverse countries like Brazil or India, not 80% White Netherlands, 90% Han PRC, or 95% ethnically Japanese Japan.

    Americans tend to chase money more than Europeans do.

    It’s a cultural phonomen. Americans don’t have a thousand year history of going to war with each other. In our ~250 year history we’ve only done that once. The happy result is that we strive to improve ourselves instead spending blood and treasure making war with the next country over.

    Unfortunately, over the past 100-some years we’ve allowed ourselves to be dragged into Europeans’ endless wars, fighting them and rebuilding Europe’s cities after we win the wars for them. Don’t expect that to continue, Systematicvisionary. We’ve almost gone broke defending your precious, antiquated cities from one tyrant or another. Time to put your big boy pants on and defend them yourselves.

    I find Europe is boring. I’m happy you’re happy there. But, aside from some Americans taking brief vacations in the Old Country, it’s really not a place that interests us. In any way.

  8. janehavisham says:
    May 22, 2025 at 10:42 am

    Why would they take vacations to a place that doesn’t interest them? In any way?

  9. janehavisham says:
    May 22, 2025 at 12:07 pm

    “we’ve allowed ourselves to be dragged into Europeans’ endless wars”

    Hilarious because the US hasn’t gone a month without bombing some other country in decades.

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