Reports of riots in Stockholm suburbs probably brings to American minds images of single-family homes and SUVs burning. Though Stockholm has plenty of American-style suburbs, the riots were not in those areas.
Instead, they were in high-density housing projects that Sweden built in an effort to promote transit ridership, which planners today would call “transit-oriented developments.” Most Swedes, however, refused to live in these projects, so they became home to Sweden’s second-class citizenry, namely immigrant and often Muslim workers.
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American urban planners who want to follow Europe’s example of emphasizing multi-family housing and transit over single-family homes and automobiles should look closely at Sweden’s example. Though Sweden is often praised as an ideal social democracy, the riots reveal a dark underbelly, namely that the country has come to depend on immigrant workers who take second-class jobs and live in second-class housing and are forced to use second-class transportation.
American planners like to think of themselves as progressives who care about the poor. Yet most planners, who by definition have college educations and middle-class incomes, rarely rub shoulders with the working class. Thus, they can easily talk about high-density “workforce housing” for those other people who are needed to keep cities running but who the planners don’t ever want to actually get to know. After all, they’re probably racist members of the John Birch Society or some other right-wing group.
If we follow the planners, Stockholm’s present will be America’s future. This is a big country, and we don’t need to force people into second-class housing to protect farms and open space or reduce greenhouse gas emissions.
Randal, this time you are not only coming up with a non-sequitur in your reasoning (sic) as you usually do, but you’re being downright offensive.
The US has a lot more experience with this sort of thing than the Europeans; whether or not a particular area is a TOD, or a project with La Corbusier high rises, served by transit or not, has nothing to do with the alienation and ghetto-ization of minority youth in this country or otherwise.
The 1965 Watts riots and 1992 LA riots were in an area dominated by small, single family California bungalows. Similarly, the 1967 Detroit riots were in a city also dominated by single family housing. So forces are at work that have nothing to do with the type of housing, per se.
Like Paris, if city dwellers I strongly suspect native Swedes strongly prefer the “traditional” neighborhoods of old town Stockholm, NOT the new La Corbusier style suburbs. Certainly this is also the case for cities like Paris and many others in Europe (and some in the US like Boston, San Francisco and New York City), with sky-high housing prices in the “old” city–as opposed to Le Corbusier type suburbs.
On the other hand, if such high rise housing is so out of favor please explain why the Upper East Side, Russian Hill (San Francisco) and Chicago’s Gold Coast have some of the priciest real estate in North America, AND are among the densest parts of US Cities–approaching Hong Kong densities of 200,000+/square mile in some parts of the Upper West Side.
Disliking the suburbs and automobiles does not make one a planner nor a “progressive” (which is an orwellian term to describe people who are really fascists). This whole notion that government only favors urbanism and only favors mass transit is complete non-sense and any body with some common sense can see that. Suburbs were created by military planners as a way to disperse populations and production for defense purposes.
You can dislike the suburbs for other reasons. Some people dislike the sense of isolation as if suburbs are quiet and discomforting to more urban living. And if everyones at work then the neighborhood is literally empty. So there is something unsettling about it.
“Randal, this time you are not only coming up with a non-sequitur in your reasoning (sic) as you usually do, but you’re being downright offensive.”
But MSetty is not so offended that he’ll quit reading or commenting on this blog. Feigned offense? We report, you decide.
I’m often astounded at the absolutely massive causal leaps of faith Mr. O’Toole makes. What caused the 2008 economic downturn? Growth management (and nothing else)! What causes riots? Growth management! etc, etc, etc.
The antiplanner blinders take all context and throw it out the window. When the antiplanner blinders go on there is only one explanation for why anything negative happens in this world.
Massive housing projects for the poor have been torn down in many cities. They were considered, even by progressives, to be the cause of much of the crime and breakdown of society.
Rebuilding the same projects in out of the way suburbs, linked to the city by a train line, will not be any better.
Frank, if you have something constructive to say, please do so.
Otherwise, your credibility would be higher if you’d just STFU.
I’m offended by Randal’s leaps of logic, in this case which is much greater than usual, and seems to come out of his apparent knee-jerk dislike of most sorts of “gummit” planning except perhaps highway planning.
There is plenty to criticize in the 1950’s to 1970’s “planning” that went into European La Corbursier style suburbs, but the shibboleth “high density = crime + despair” certainly is not a cause and effect.
“Social exclusion” (a direct description the Europeans use, not cloaked in American-style weasel-word obfuscation) and the “culture of poverty” has a lot more to do with it.
in the San Francisco Bay Area, except for a few, declining number of “projects” most social pathology and crime are focused in “hoods” dominated by single family houses, e.g., Richmond, East Oakland, Pittsburg/Antioch, much of Hunters Point and Ingleside in San Francisco, the “bad” parts of Vallejo, etc. These areas have become economically and socially isolated from the mainstream economy and society, as many European suburbs have such as the Stockholm case.
The fact that some of the MOST AFFLUENT, expensive parts of the Bay Area are often “high density” areas such as Russian Hill, Nob Hill, Pacific Heights and other wide swaths of San Francisco, the new apartment districts in Jack London Square, Albany Hill, etc. puts the lie to Randal’s theme in this thread. Sure, single family houses in places like Los Altos Hills or Marin County sell for more than ritzy apartments and flats in San Francisco, but not on a square foot basis.
libertyrailroad,
Actually, the standard template for the suburbs–curvilinear streets, isolated and separated land uses, etc.–was created by New Deal planners in the 1930’s and adopted wholesale by developers after World War II.
If by “military planners” you mean those in the Truman Administration who birthed VA loans, you’re correct. But of course there were also the government-back FHA loans for “civilians” set in motion about the same time, as well as highway funding, and a whole host of other “gummit” policies, tax subsidies, etc. that gave us today’s entrenched suburban pattern. In any case, the “free market” was only peripheral in how things developed.
Contrary to Randal, Jim Kunstler may have been quite right: http://www.seattlemet.com/news-and-profiles/publicola/articles/the-greatest-misallocation-of-resources-in-the-history-of-the-world.
You’re so offended that you continue to come back to this blog and read the offensive material over and over and over. The logical conclusions is either: 1) You’re feigning offense; or 2) You’re addicted to or enjoy reading offensive material. No one’s forcing you to read The Antiplanner’s “offensive” material.
BTW, I’m still waiting for an explanation of why you think others should pay to ship your books.
Frank, you continue to prove you’re an idiot.
You apparently have never read Sun Tzu.
If this reference is too obscure for you, here is the point:
??????????????????????????????????????
So it is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you can win a hundred battles without a single loss.
If you only know yourself, but not your opponent, you may win or may lose.
If you know neither yourself nor your enemy, you will always endanger yourself.
Didn’t like Chinese characters!!! Oh well.
“The logical conclusions is either: 1) You’re feigning offense; or 2) You’re addicted to or enjoy reading offensive material.”
Or 3. you enjoy engaging your opponents in debate and have no problem calling them out with they stoop below their usual grade.
“when” they stoop. Sorry.
Michael: So, you’re addicted to being offended on the internets then? Or you’re faking it?
And you’re still not going to explain why others should pay to ship your books?
“Or 3. you enjoy engaging your opponents in debate and have no problem calling them out with they stoop below their usual grade.”
bennett: You mean like using ridiculing language like “spaketh” or resorting to name calling like “idiot”? A bit hypocritical to claim offense in one breath and then to spew offensive names in the next. Dontcha think?
You know they are grasping a thin reed when they try and blame these riots on TODs. Good comedy, though.
Best,
D
“Reports of riots in Stockholm suburbs probably brings to American minds images of … SUVs burning”
Not just to mind. The caption under the photo in the very article that is shown above mentions 30 cars that were burned. In fact, the main element tying together these “suburban” riots in European cities over time and space seems to be the burning of large numbers of automobiles.
Also, this area of Stockholm (the one mentioned in the article) is apparently not very dense. The Jarfalla municipality has a density of only 2,700 people per square mile, or about the same as Scarsdale, NY. Despite the commuter railway stop, the area gives the overall impression of car dependence, with wide, looping arterials, a grade-separated highway, and segregated big box retail sitting behind giant parking lots.
“Yet most planners, who by definition have college educations and middle-class incomes, rarely rub shoulders with the working class.”
Are you talking about Dan, an urban planner living in suburban Denver, who almost has a master’s degree? After all, he does live in a suburb where the average median household income is over $60,000. His development, populated by wealthy commuters, is isolated from the much poorer areas of that Denver suburb.
“Thus, they can easily talk about high-density ‘workforce housing’ for those other people who are needed to keep cities running but who the planners don’t ever want to actually get to know. After all, they’re probably racist members of the John Birch Society or some other right-wing group.”
Come on. Really. You’re talking about, Dan, right? No need to be vague. We all know that Dan lives in a low-density neighborhood that is comprised overwhelmingly of college-educated, white-collar workers. Scour the Census and you’ll find an overwhelmingly white suburb that has worked hard to keep Mexicans out; and they claim conservative and libertarian think tanks “racist.” Standard M.O.
I like it that the low-watt trolls have nothing but hand-flapping, low-watt trolling, likely due to the inability to grasp the argument and address it.
Perhaps the deeply flawed argument Randal made struck a chord in the flawed. Or maybe a dosage check is in order. We report, you decide. I don’t know ahat that says about who this flawed argumentation is geared to, but hey. Big tent in America.
DS
Dan,
If I ‘m just trolling or “dissembling” or just being “mendacious,” why don’t you just ignore me?
As long as you post here, I will continue to comment on your hypocrisy and will continue making connections to the situations The Antiplanner describes and your chosen profession and lifestyle.
Relax. Have another Merlot. Ignore me.
Ah – I should let your dishonest, low-wattage mischaracterizations go. Brilliant. Maybe I’ll start counting the number of times you cannot address the issue so you make something up to spam the thread – what’s a good acronym…CAPSMUS. Can’t Address Point, So Makes Up Sh….Stuff.
I’ll go with that. CAPSMUS. CAPSMUS incident #X. Got it.
Best,
D
Mr.Setty, Frank is not an idiot, he’s sleazy.
The only reasonable thing that Frank has ever brought up was his issue about sidewalks.
Not all suburbs are not bad, just as suburban trains are not bad.
I am sleazy. I had sex with your step-mom last night. I Shirley did Shirley. What a gal. She didn’t even charge me.
Call me sleazy and I’ll be sleazy. Andrew.
What part is dishonest, Dan?
That you live in an affluent suburb?
That you live in a larger-than-average SFH?
The part about your neighborhood working hard to keep Mexicans out is rhetoric. I retract that.
So, what part is not true?
Specifically.
I am a troll, Dan. I’m trolling you. And you keep taking the bait. Keep taking the bait, Dan. I’m not going anywhere. I will continue to expose your hypocrisy. There are plenty-o-links to back up all the facts related to your lifestyle. Would post those links, but you’ll just tattle and have them removed.
Keep posting here, Dan. I’ll keep trolling you.
Frank, I am glad that you have admitted that you are sleazy.
Hey even O’Toole has admitted that roads are there regardless of economic conditions.
This blog is about politics, not money. :$
CAPSMUS.
DS
Hey, Frank here’s a link where you’ll find the meds you have failed to take lately, if you can’t find those you need at WalMart for $4.00/month, and taking advantage of the cost savings demonstrated by that eeeeevil Canuckistan socialized medicine:
https://www.google.com/search?q=canadian+pharmacy&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
The real trolls are showing their true colors. Dan and msetty are hypocrites, not only in their lifestyles, but in their posts here. For years they have insulted others while feigning offense. Then there’s the real spam they overlook from the highwayman, Andrew Dawson.
Keep on trollin’, trolls. You’re not anonymous. We know where you live.
FUBARed CAPSMUS.
DS
To use a setty-ism, I find that remark “downright offensive”!
And you’re slurring your words, Dan. Did you have more than three Merlots tonight?
Frank, you’re a hyper hypocritie you’re self!
For that matter O’Toole , complains about tax breaks, but if you send him money he’ll give you a tax break.
Roads are not subjected to economic tests, so why do you want railroads subjected to economic tests?
Frank, son, you are so deep in the mode of MUS that you don’t bother to hide it from smart people who can check the time stamp of a comment to see you are grasping and thrashing for play.
What do you call comic characters with negative credibility holding a pity party in public? I’ll have to develop an acronym for that too.
DS
“I’ll have to develop an acronym for that too.”
Try drinking some Merlot first. I hear it really helps!
MSetty wrote:
Randal, this time you are not only coming up with a non-sequitur in your reasoning (sic) as you usually do, but you’re being downright offensive.
No he’s not. I have personal familiarity with these Million Programme areas, most of which were built on greenfield lands in suburban areas (but often still within the corporate limits of the city, including Stockholm, which, like Houston and Los Angeles, has annexed many of its “suburbs”).
The Million Programme areas can fairly be categorized as “planning disasters” or “Smart Growth disasters.”
Delbert wrote:
Also, this area of Stockholm (the one mentioned in the article) is apparently not very dense. The Jarfalla municipality has a density of only 2,700 people per square mile, or about the same as Scarsdale, NY. Despite the commuter railway stop, the area gives the overall impression of car dependence, with wide, looping arterials, a grade-separated highway, and segregated big box retail sitting behind giant parking lots.
A few factual problems with the above (please understand that I have visited these places myself, not just by way of Google Maps or Google Earth).
.
(1) The Million Programme areas are not within the corporate limits of the municipality of Järfälla.
(2) Rinkeby, Tensta and Husby (Husby was where this round of unrest, violence and rioting started) are all within the corporate limits of Stockholm.
Google Maps of Rinkeby, Tensta, and Husby.
(3) They are not directly served by commuter rail (pendeltåg in Swedish), but all three were built on top of subway stations on the Stockholm subway (tunnelbana in Swedish) Blue Line – very much in line with what orthodox Smart Growth planners and activists want future U.S. cities and suburbs to look like, even though the E18 highway (that runs between Stockholm and Oslo, Norway) is nearby.