Last Sunday, a pedestrian was struck and killed by the Twin Cities new Green light-rail line, which opened for operation in June. Shannon Buchanan was apparently crossing a pedestrian way over the tracks and was hit by a train going about 30 mph.
Though the train’s average speed is just 12.5 mph, at the point where the woman was hit it was going 30 mph. “She may have been wearing headphones,” said a transit agency official. Agencies typically claim that most accidents are the fault of the victims, as if putting a heavy, difficult-to-stop train in the same streets as pedestrians and autos is not the fault of the agency.
The FTA no longer includes fatality data in the National Transit Database, but the last time data were available, light rail was involved in about 12 fatalities per billion passenger miles carried while buses were involved in only about 4 fatalities per billion. Apparently, it’s a lot safer to get hit by a 50,000-pound bus than a 300,000-pound train.
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St. Paul Pioneer Press columnist Joe Soucheray argue that the accident shows that the trains should be run at even slower speeds. Though this was the Green Line’s first fatality, it wasn’t the first accident: it previous hit at least three pedestrians, leaving at least of them with severe head and leg injuries.
During a recent visit to the Twin Cities, the Antiplanner noticed that Metro Transit was running the trains with a full three cars even though they were pretty empty. This is a change from the Hiawatha line which is mostly run with only two cars. Three cars means that any accident pits roughly 300,000 pounds against the weight of whatever the train hits.
Do you have a source for the light rail fatality numbers AP? Only stuff I found showed rail as having a far lower fatality rate than you claim, lower than buses as well.
“Though the train’s average speed is just 12.5 mph, ”
In busy cities, that’s good going for cars, too.
“The FTA no longer includes fatality data in the National Transit Database, but the last time data were available, light rail was involved in about 12 fatalities per billion passenger miles carried while buses were involved in only about 4 fatalities per billion.”
Do buses go into areas with similar pedestrian densities? This may affect the casualty rates. Modern light rail units should come with guards which prevent pedestrian from being run over – unlike buses.
“She may have been wearing headphones,”
In Croydon, all light rail trains come as standard with video cameras, so that the causes of collisions can be examined. For exactly this reason.
“Agencies typically claim that most accidents are the fault of the victims, as if putting a heavy, difficult-to-stop train in the same streets as pedestrians and autos is not the fault of the agency.”
Sometimes, pedestrians step off sidewalks, expecting the trains to stop. Strange, but true, and there is the video footage to show this. Light rail units with electromagnetic brakes can stop very quickly indeed.
People who walk in dangerous urban environments while using headphones are choosing to put their lives at risk.
Wearing headphones while walking can be a risky business, new research from the University of Maryland suggests
In a study published Tuesday in the journal Injury Prevention, researchers looked at reported pedestrian-vehicle collisions in which the pedestrian was wearing headphones — either the traditional cover-the-whole-ear variety or ear buds that fit into the ear itself. They found 116 reports of death or injury that occurred under such circumstances between 2004 and 2011. While only 16 took place in 2004, nearly three times that number (47) took place in 2011. Overall, 81 of the collisions resulted in the headphone-wearer’s death.
While the study doesn’t show a cause/effect relationship, the risks should be obvious. This is why it’s also illegal to use headphones while driving in my state. Laws are for stupid people.
No question that wearing headphones while crossing streets is crazy and dangerous.
But the line: . “She may have been wearing headphones,” sounds like a planned, automatic response with no concern for the truth or for the person who just died.
Victim blaming is common. Maybe that’s what’s going on here. But I wouldn’t say it’s an aspect of transit agencies, but urban transportation more generally. In NYC anonymous and non-anonymous NYPD sources are regularly quoted saying things like the victim may have been wearing headphones, he just darted out into the street, it’s his fault he was hit in the crosswalk with the light by the turning vehicle since he was wearing a hoodie etc…whenever a pedestrian is hit by a car, truck, or bus. Sometimes it gets even worse and you see crap in a report like this:
“Preliminarily, both of them had the right of way,” an NYPD spokesperson said.
All sources I can find show that among riders rail transit is significantly safer than any other mode.
Among non riders the majority of deaths from rail transit are classified as either suicides or trespassing events. Even counting those deaths, rail transit is safer than cars and mass transit generally, so I would assume safer than buses. Why is the AP harping on this? Can’t say I recall you making a post for every other pedestrian who was killed yesterday by drivers of SOVs.
“Can’t say I recall you making a post for every other pedestrian who was killed yesterday by drivers of SOVs.”
Agreed. Google News reveals many pedestrians have been killed by SUVs the last several days. On the rare occasions I’m near rail, I take precautions. I’m more worried about the [deleted] drivers who refuse to stop; was nearly mowed down by an SUV a few days ago because the [deleted] ran through the stop sign and for some reason the [deleted] was mad at me.
BTW, according to another news article, the pedestrian this train previously struck “was illegally walking between the eastbound and westbound tracks.” (Again, laws are for stupid people.) This article also states that the pedestrian killed WAS indeed wearing headphones.
So…
Not sure why all the excuse-mongering for rail is going on. It’s well known that rail transit kills more pedestrians per 100,000 miles then cars or buses do. Not only that, but the rate is increasing rapidly:
http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/Rail_Safety_Statistics_Report_2009-FINAL.pdf
Not sure why all the fear mongering about rail is going on. There are plenty of reasons to be opposed to light rail, and pedestrian safety should be low on the list.
The document you’ve supplied shows rates from 2003-08, so to say that the “rate is increasing rapidly” is unsupported. It did increase during a five-year period over five years ago. The same document shows that the risk of fatalities to the public is largely (83%) risk from public behavior. You know, like wearing headphones.
At any rate, the GAO found the Rail Safety Statistics Report to be unreliable, which “determined that there are numerous inaccuracies in FTA’s SSO Rail Accident Database and, consequently, the 2009 Rail Safety Statistics Report.”
GAO report here. Link fixed.
Here is another link, from a school professor:
http://orgs.carleton.edu/farmhouse/lrt/essays/safety.htm
Sure, it’s a couple years old, but every study I’ve seen, whether older or more recent, shows that fatality and injury rates are increasing, not decreasing.
The reality is that mixing half million pounds of vehicle with 150 pound pedestrians is not a good idea. Yes, light rail is a horrible financial debacle, but it’s also very unsafe for pedestrians, whether you consider behavior like wearing headphones.
You get hit by a vehicle moving 40 mph while walking around and it doesn’t matter much if it weighs 2000 lbs or 200.000 lbs. You die either way. So why harp on transit vehicles as being so dangerous?
“You get hit by a vehicle moving 40 mph while walking around and it doesn’t matter much if it weighs 2000 lbs or 200.000 lbs. You die either way. So why harp on transit vehicles as being so dangerous?”
Because, moron/rail shill, rail is killing people at a higher rate than buses or cars.
How do you know that link was posted by a professor? The photo when you strip away some of the URL is quite telling: http://orgs.carleton.edu/farmhouse/
You read the link you posted, right? It concludes:
According to this analysis, light rail is indeed less safe than automobiles,but only barely. Given the low number of light rail fatalities and the fact that LRT as a mode of transport is just beginning to make a comeback in the context of smart growth, it is quite conceivable that the results could be reversed (or alternately, augmented) in a matter of years. Furthermore, there are many more sides to the safety debate, among other things including similar analyses using injuries and total accidents. The lessons to be learned are twofold: firstly, at present the death rates for light rail and automotive travel are comparable, but secondly, any analysis based on fatalities alone as they relate to LRT should be scrutinized carefully. The broader lesson is that in a complex, real world issue, there are usually more angles to any aspect of the problem than are apparent at first glance. Overall judgments are not to be made lightly.
Doesn’t exactly support your claim.
And as lbh illustrates, mixing pedestrians with anything large—a horse and buggy, a car, a train, a tractor, an elephant—that moves at 30 mph is risky.
“Because, moron/rail shill, rail is killing people at a higher rate than buses or cars.”
You’re comparing apples and oranges. More pedestrians are going to be killed by a vehicle in an urban environment than on a limited access highway, and most SOV passenger miles are on a limited access highway, which depresses the rate of pedestrian fatalities. Do you have a study that compares the fatality rate of different vehicles on comparable corridors? And what is the feasibility of reducing the danger posed by the different vehicles – ignoring poor implementations, what is the ‘inherent’ danger?
One thing I will give you is that streetcar tracks can be dangerous for bikes. Perhaps it is sensationalist reporting, but in Toronto 1/3 of bike crashes are blamed on rail tracks.
Do you have a study that compares the fatality rate of different vehicles on comparable corridors? I don’t think that is the right question because so many miles are driven daily in the Urban areas that it would statistically make little difference.
http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/state-by-state-overview
Oregon sees 1.01 deaths per Million Miles traveled in motorized vehicles. And MAX is responsible for 1.14 deaths per Million Miles traveled.
What’s the rate for both excluding suicides and trespassers?
http://www.twincities.com/News/State/ci_26407444/North-Branch-boy-dies-days-after-being-hit-by-car
During a recent visit to the Twin Cities, the Gilfoil noticed that many SUVs were running with 6 seats available, even though they were pretty empty – only the driver seat was occupied. This is a change from the days before SUVs when more people drove sedans with only 4 seats. SUVs means that any accident pits roughly 3,000 pounds against the weight of whatever the SUV hits.
(The boy may or may not have been wearing headphones, the article doesn’t say).
@lbh – probably ZERO, or close to it. You find evidence of suicide by Light Rail, or “trespassing” you let us know OK?
“You find evidence of suicide by Light Rail, or “trespassing” you let us know OK?”
The level of willful ignorance displayed in these comments is unbelievable.
“light rail” + suicide
And from a newspaper you comment on:
“Bertha and John Paul Kelly brought the total number of people killed by TriMet MAX trains to 34. Four of those deaths were suicides, according to information obtained by The Oregonian through a public records request. Meanwhile, thirteen involved a pedestrian trespassing on tracks.”
.
Use. Your. Brain.
My brother lives in the twin cities. I was visiting in June and I asked him about the new line because it runs in front of the school where he teaches. He reported then that they have had a lot of trouble with kids walking on the tracks during the test runs. This was not an occasional problem. The kids in the neighborhood walk on the tracks all the time and the transit authority didn’t know what to do about it. He wondered aloud how long it would be before one of these kids got killed.
This is the view of the tracks in front of the high school. They practically invite you to walk on them:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Green+Line,+Saint+Paul,+MN/@44.9556471,-93.1509447,3a,75y,292.2h,83.82t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sa2_U6AwiebErFHtBIWcY-A!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x52b32b356961cdfd:0x99b4dde9dda239e6
The tracks might invite potential Darwin Award recipients, they don’t invite me.
The no pedestrian sign seen here should also be a clue. At least, for anyone who cares to use their brain.
Jardinero1 wrote:
This is the view of the tracks in front of the high school. They practically invite you to walk on them:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Green+Line,+Saint+Paul,+MN/@44.9556471,-93.1509447,3a,75y,292.2h,83.82t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sa2_U6AwiebErFHtBIWcY-A!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x52b32b356961cdfd:0x99b4dde9dda239e6
That little “fence” of chains is not going to deter anyone from trespassing on the tracks. At a minimum, they need a robust and tall fence there.
Might this be (yet another) example of rail transit sponsors trying to “save money” by skimping on things to get the trains running – and then coming back to taxpayers to ask for more money to finish the project?
C.P. Zilliacus, I agree that the way you dress the grade has a huge impact on the way people treat it. Here is a shot of the Red Line, in Houston, which had its own collision issues with cars, but you never see people walking on the grade as my brother reports from the Twin Cities:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Houston,+TX/@29.7087689,-95.4015366,3a,75y,220.24h,85.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6LLRfNLWmvQ_iknshYitpg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x8640b8b4488d8501:0xca0d02def365053b
“At a minimum, they need a robust and tall fence there.”
Using this same logic, roads need a fall fence to keep people from jaywalking. Common sense should deter people from walking on the tracks just as it should deter people from crossing roads outside of an intersection in heavy car traffic. Why spend millions of taxpayer dollars to protect a handful of idiots?
“you never see people walking on the grade as my brother reports from the Twin Cities”
Maybe that’s because far fewer people walk in Houston? Houston is number 35 out of 52 ranked cities in terms of walking or biking to work, while Minneapolis is number nine. Mineapolis has a 6.3% share of commuters walking to work, while Houston has 2.2%.
However, “you never see” is hardly reliable evidence.
Jardinero1 wrote:
C.P. Zilliacus, I agree that the way you dress the grade has a huge impact on the way people treat it. Here is a shot of the Red Line, in Houston, which had its own collision issues with cars, but you never see people walking on the grade as my brother reports from the Twin Cities:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Houston,+TX/@29.7087689,-95.4015366,3a,75y,220.24h,85.21t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s6LLRfNLWmvQ_iknshYitpg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x8640b8b4488d8501:0xca0d02def365053b
Curious, as this looks every bit as “inviting” as the image above from the Twin Cities.
Will have to get some shots of the new D.C. Streetcar (runs along H Street, N.E. and Benning Road, N.E.) for folks to look at. Here is an image that’s rather dated from the complex intersection of Benning Road, H Street and Maryland Avenue (the streetcar tracks were in place but none of the trolley wire had been installed and the D.C. streetcars themselves were still in the Czech Republic at the time that Google imaged the intersection).
Actually I think the Antiplanner has hit on a briliant strategy to prevent future rail projects, and – here’s the exciting part – even scrap the ones that currently exist. Just insist that they must be 100% safe, with NO chance of injury, death, or damage to either passengers, pedestrians, or cars. That should pretty much eliminate any practical system. Hopefully no one will notice that we don’t hold any other mode of transportation to the same impossible standard.
Frank wrote:
“At a minimum, they need a robust and tall fence there.”
Using this same logic, roads need a fall fence to keep people from jaywalking. Common sense should deter people from walking on the tracks just as it should deter people from crossing roads outside of an intersection in heavy car traffic. Why spend millions of taxpayer dollars to protect a handful of idiots?
Like it or not (and I don’t particularly), governments (including government agencies that build choo-choo train lines) have to take reasonable steps to protect the public. That means things like fencing to discourage trespassing on tracks (be they slow-speed affairs like the ones discussed above, or higher-speed lines like the LACMTA’s Blue Line, or even Amtrak’s Northeast Corridor (not High-speed rail, but plenty fast enough to “sneak up” on trespassers and run them over).
Consider third rail power. Anytime I have seen it used in the U.S., the right-of-way is entirely fenced-off.
Not always the case in Britain as you can see in this example, but the British apparently assume that people will not stupidly trespass onto railroad right-of-way.
Frank,
Fewer pedestrians than the Twin Cities is not the same as no pedestrians.
The street view I linked is in the middle of The Texas Medical Center and on any given day there are many, many pedestrians walking about. There are 106000 employees in the Medical Center and over seven million visitors, to its facilities, every year. One third of the Red Line’s 36000 daily riders exit at one of the Medical Center’s three stations. All of them cross the street and proceed down the sidewalk to their employment destination. I used to drive through there on a daily basis and I never saw anyone on the railway grade.
There is a set of factors unique to the Twin Cities and to the way the grade is dressed on their Green Line that contributes to this issue of pedestrians utilizing the grade and pedestrians being struck on the grade.
Again, “you never see” is not evidence. It is incumbent on you to demonstrate with actual evidence that Minneapolis light rail strikes more pedestrians than the Houston LRT.
No Frank, I don’t have to demonstrate anything. I am just making conversation. I recorded two observations about the Green Line: The locals have noted lots of kids walking on the grade and the grade looks pretty inviting to walk on. I noted that on the Red Line, in Houston, I have never seen anyone walking along the grade. It’s all anecdotal and I don’t really want to prove or care if you believe it. Some people on this blog need to relax.
First off, I feel sorry for her friends , family and especially her teenage son for their loss. It is a tragedy.
What I’ve found most curious about with the Central Corridor is that despite spending a billion dollars to build it, no money was budgets for crossing arms / gates. If you look at the design, plenty was spent on fencing, and warning lights and signage.
People need to be responsible for their own actions. Nevertheless that doesn’t mean we should ignore than good design lends itself to better results. How is that not a dollar was set aside to physically impede the paths of pedestrians looking to cross when a train was coming? Of what use is blocking their crossing at an intersection, only to funnel them to a choke point where they’ll mentally be all the more anxious to scoot across when a train approaches?
Most concerning about this project is that due to the enormous cost overruns, they eliminated a tunnel at the University of Minnesota. The route bisects a busy part of the campus that was previously troubled by students dangerously crossing in front of motor vehicles. In eliminating the previously promised tunnel, they’ve added yet another risk.
“It’s all anecdotal and I don’t really want to prove or care if you believe it. Some people on this blog need to relax.”
And some people on this blog need to stop making things up.
So Frank how does the fact that 4 were suicides on the MAX change the statistics? People jump in front of cars and even off bridges onto the light rail tracks but how does it make any difference in the statistics of deaths per million miles traveled?
Ibh: “What’s the rate for both excluding suicides and trespassers?”
Tombdragon: “probably ZERO, or close to it. You find evidence of suicide by Light Rail, or “trespassing” you let us know OK?”
I found evidence of suicide by light rail and evidence of trespassing, and as requested, I let you know. I let you know that you were wrong. For the MAX alone, the rate is 50%, which in your mind might be “close to” zero, but in reality, no so much.
Should read that the rate is halved, at least for the MAX.
So coming back to your original numbers:
“Oregon sees 1.01 deaths per Million Miles traveled in motorized vehicles. And MAX is responsible for 1.14 deaths per Million Miles traveled.”
So the rate for the MAX excluding suicide and trespassers is 0.57, which is actually less than the rate for motorized vehicles in Oregon. Of course, this is based on unsourced numbers about MAX fatality rates, and suicides by motor vehicle in Oregon would also need to be subtracted for an accurate comparison.
But point stands that there is plenty of readily available evidence of suicide by light rail and death by light rail resulting from trespassing. Anyone who cares to end their willful ignorance can use the oracle known as Google to find things known as facts and statistics.
Or they can cling to ideology and maintain their willful ignorance.
I can see it now..
“The Koch Foundation proudly announces a new organization: Safe Transit On Public Rail And In All Locations (STOPRAIL). This non-partisan, grassroots group seeks to promote smart growth and public transit by investing in safe light rail throughout our nation’s cities.”
(In practice, of course, this group will occupy itself with obliging transit agencies to prove that it impossible for anyone to be hurt in any way by any planned or existing light rail project, effectively shutting down all existing light rail projects.)
For coming up with this brilliant idea, I ask only for a small percentage of consultant’s fees from STOPRAIL’s budget.
gilfoil wrote:
“The Koch Foundation proudly announces a new organization: Safe Transit On Public Rail And In All Locations (STOPRAIL). This non-partisan, grassroots group seeks to promote smart growth and public transit by investing in safe light rail throughout our nation’s cities.”
Remind me again what the Koch boys have to do with transit?
Don’t you know? According to the Daily Kos, the totally non-biased internet blog, “The Koch brothers aim to screw Tennessee transit riders.”
Argument ad KochBrotherium: This fallacy is a cousin to the genetic fallacy and guilt by association. The twist, of course, is that anything that the Koch Brothers ever say, said, fund, funded, might fund, came close to funding, could have funded, will fund, walked by, looked at, support, think about, or mention is invalid by virtue of, well, “Koch Brothers! Boo!”
http://www.fee.org/the_freeman/detail/effectively-irrational
Remind me again what the Koch boys have to do with transit?
I simply mentioned them as a likely source of funding for the grassroots group STOPRAIL (dedicated to 100% safe light rail), given their strong record of concern for public transit riders.
No gilfoil their strong record of concern for pedestrians is relevant, not transit riders. Almost none of the deaths from light rail are transit riders.
Yes, you did, because heaven forbid Frank someone point out that you are WRONG in your conclusion. Yes some commit suicide, so what they are still dead, and the statistics don’t change unless you factor in all the people that commit suicide by motor vehicle – apples and oranges – Frank. I asked if there was data that people committed suicide jumping in front of Light Rail Trains to let us know – Fine thank you, but the statistics still don’t change. MAX still kills more per million miles traveled than automobiles, and yes some do commit suicide by Light Rail, bus , and train too, great, like it matters, they’re still dead.
No gilfoil their strong record of concern for pedestrians is relevant, not transit riders.
Yes, thank you lbh. I meant their strong record of concern for pedestrians and walkable urbanism.
Poor Tombdragon can’t face reality.
He pathetically tries to distract away from the fact that half of MAX deaths are suicides and trespassers.