London had a big snowstorm. Good thing they have the world’s best rail transit system so people can still get around.
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Flickr photo by aburt.
Airplanes don’t do so well in the snow, either.
Air-travel planners should be ridiculed, and all airplanes should be grounded permanently.
We know cars and planes have problems with weather. But If you live in Portland, you are asked to ride transit in snowy and icy weather because it is the best way to get around. That’s what Tri-Met and our Mayor was telling us.
In the past we have been told you can rely on light rail when cars are stuck because they are on rails and they won’t have the same problems.
Maybe it is time that rail supporters ( especially in Portland)to not encourage riders to use light rail during snow and icy weather.
Then stranding the riders at cold stations.
“The biggest Storm in 18 years” is going to shut down most transportation mass, personal, or otherwise. Growing up in Denver we would get a late spring dump about every five years that would shut down the city. No busses, no light rail, just nordic skis. D4P points out the dead horse in the room that is continually bludgeoned. Why only criticize rail transit when all modes of travel are adversely affected? When we get ice storms in Austin can I blame all the highway closures on the highway system itself? I mean the Texas highways are touted as some of the best in the country. And yes, they have had to shut down the interstate.
Cherrypicking is really fun isn’t it?
“Not a single double-decker bus left its bay.” -NPR
Does 18 inches of snow shut down the train in Stockholm?
So why do so many transit supporters tell us to use transit during storms?
It is not cherry picking when your told to use it. Then it fails, again and again, year after year.
Then they examine it, after the fact and come up with a plan so it will never happen again. But it does.
The Portland experience
“So why do so many transit supporters tell us to use transit during storms?”
I’m not familiar with the Portland situation. What I do know is that when record setting storms come, ALL transit shuts down. If it snows 4 ft in Portland tomorrow, I would suggest not going anywhere by any other means then you own two feet. If there is a transit supporter in Portland that is trying to convince you that transit can overcome a city’s overall lack of preparedness for extreme weather, then they are sorely mistaken.
Thanks Bennet. I heard the same on NPR and knew immediately that Randal would post about the trains but not the busses. Myopic? Self indulgent?
I think that there may be a grey area in which weather conditions are such that the roads are sketchy and rail transit can still function normally. Perhaps that is what the Portland rail supporters are getting at.
Airplanes don’t do so well in the snow, either.
Plannurz is idjits for not thinkin’ of icing, even in clear air.
And what about walking? Don’t antiplannurz think the government should subsidize YakTrax for pedestrians?
DS
When it snows, I chain up and have no problem getting around.
“When it snows, I chain up and have no problem getting around.”
Then you are prepared. Seeing as how it rarely snows in significant amounts in London, most people don’t own chains, let alone 4 wheel drive autos. Not that context is important 😉 but I didn’t think it snows that much in Portland. In the epic Denver blizzards chains will not help unless your driving a monster truck. But the main point is that the “worst storm in 18 years” is something that is hard to be prepared for. It’s time to light up the fireplace and have a snowball fight. Enjoy the day off and forget about driving or taking the train anywhere.
I have a 2 wheel drive car and we have mt Hood only 50 miles away and year around skiing.
We have the coast range on the way to the coast. So it not a good idea if your doing any winter driving not to carry chains.
In the old days my VW bug would tear through the snow.
So tell me, Randal – what premium should a rational investor pay in order to keep their system running 100% of the time instead of 99.99% of the time? Because if you told me that you were going to increase your costs by even 1% to keep from missing a single day of operation over a number of years, I’d say that you’re crazy.
bennett asked:
> Does 18 inches of snow shut down the train in Stockholm?
Thanks for asking, Bennett (I know Stockholm intimately and speak Swedish fluently).
To answer your question, it does not take that much to cause problems!
Here’s a recent (03-Feb-2009) story from the tabloid daily Expressen (The Express in English):
http://www.expressen.se/1.453591
Perhaps related to the same storm as the one that struck Britain?
The title Snökaos i Stockholm translates to Snow Chaos in Stockholm.
Here are the first few sentences (as translated by me):
Stockholm and large areas of Sweden have been paralyzed by a huge snow chaos. For a few hours, the snow has come pounding down and several streets in central areas of the city are impassible due to snow. This storm has stopped rail traffic and made parts of the highway network impassible. Over 300 bus routes have had service cancelled. Tens of thousands of people have been impacted.
“The situation is extreme,” says SL spokesman Björn Dalborg (SL is the public transit agency for the municipality of Stockholm and a very large surrounding area).
Among other things, there is a total stop of traffic on the Essingeleden segment of the E4 motorway (this is the busiest freeway segment in Sweden).
Even the subways have been impacted and large segments of the bus network are not running.
bennett said:
> I’m not familiar with the Portland situation. What I do know is
> that when record setting storms come, ALL transit shuts down.
> If it snows 4 ft in Portland tomorrow, I would suggest not going
> anywhere by any other means then you own two feet. If there is
> a transit supporter in Portland that is trying to convince you
> that transit can overcome a city’s overall lack of preparedness
> for extreme weather, then they are sorely mistaken.
Maybe light rail advocates should reconsider statements such
as the one below?
http://www.lightrailnow.org/lrn_austin/profiles.html
I’d be riding light rail to work everyday. It’s faster and
the schedule is more dependable than buses, since light rail
isn’t subject to delays from bad weather or congestion.
(emphasis added)
I wonder how many heart attacks each winter while shoveling to get the car out of the driveway?
DS
That’s about as ridiculous as saying, I wonder how many people have heart attacks running to catch a bus or train?
“I wonder how many heart attacks each winter while shoveling to get the car out of the driveway?” –Dan
Does it matter? If they’re shoveling they’re probably too poor to buy a snow blower. **SMIRK**
Kidding, as for other comments on why this sort of thing is pointed out, like snow affecting or even stopping trains, is because unfortunately some folks actually make claims to the contrary. They mispaint LRT as some sort of utopic transportation mode that gets you there cheaper, faster, and without any problems.
I don’t recall seeing the Antiplanner ever claim that planes, cars bikes and other things don’t have issues with the same weather. Assuming my memory isn’t failing me, why presume that pointing out rails problems with snow is anything other than pointing out rails problems with snow?
http://www.nesec.org/images/haz_tornado_car.jpg
You’re a funny guy Mr.O’Toole.
craig: We know cars and planes have problems with weather. But If you live in Portland, you are asked to ride transit in snowy and icy weather because it is the best way to get around. That’s what Tri-Met and our Mayor was telling us.
Should metro Portland encourage people to use their cars to get around during ice and snow storms (if they need to)? Most of the blue line was working well during the storm.
Most of the blue line was working well during the storm.
ws
The city should just suggest to stay home, if you can and not recommend anything unless it is guaranteed to work. Tri-Mets was pretty much a failure. I saw people waiting for transit that would never come. And I had to rescue my daughter as she was abandoned, by the transit systeem.
So what if part of the blue line was working! It was not going to where I needed to be.
Electric grids face some of the same problems too.
I love the debate about Amtrak in the NE corridor. There are tens of thousands of people with graduate degrees who would like to take a very fast train between Boston, NYC, and DC, especially if it is faster than flying. These people travel to Europe and see how convenient rail service is in countries that were settled centuries ago. They are also greatly involved in policy and media decisions in this country.
These people need cheap and fast rail service! Why can’t the other 299 million people in this country understand that!
These people need cheap and fast rail service! Why can’t the other 299 million people in this country understand that!
Borealis
Because for most people it is not fast and it does not go to where most of the people are going.
If it was cheap, the supporters could pay for it by way of the fares.
If it was cheap, the supporters could pay for it by way of the fares.
Indeed – we need to raise the fees for autos too, as they aren’t paying for it either.
DS
Craig, you’re in the land of crazyville if you think everytime a car fires up its engine that everything is “paid for” by user fees.
Fix auto subsidies and you might have an argument.
I’m still waiting for a check in the mail, when I drive my car.
Transit supporters will say anything as long as they don’t have to pay the full cost of riding transit.
Transit supporters will say anything as long as they don’t have to pay the full cost of riding transit.
Autocentricity status quo-ers will say anything as long as they don’t have to pay the full cost of riding transit, but tell themselves that they do.
DS
craig Says:
Transit supporters will say anything as long as they don’t have to pay the full cost of riding transit.
THWM: Sorry to inform you Craig, but transit riders pay sales, income and property taxes too!
Just as I don’t worry about car drivers not paying their full costs either.
The street in front of my house(or your house for that matter), is not being operated on a profit or loss basis.
Also even if there were no cars around, there would still be a need for the street as a commons.
Dan Says:
Transit supporters will say anything as long as they don’t have to pay the full cost of riding transit.
Autocentricity status quo-ers will say anything as long as they don’t have to pay the full cost of riding transit, but tell themselves that they do.
THWM: Dan, it is always amazing to see the sheer double standards that the “libertarians” keep pushing.
I rest my case
Autocentricity status quo-ers will say anything as long as they don’t have to pay the full cost of autocentric development, even though they pretend tothemselves that they do.
DS
For that matter the people at Reason(sic) & Cato, do not complain about that massive act of socialism that is in front of their homes called a street.
craig Says:
I rest my case.
THWM: Though you never had one to begin with.